Contemplating Therapy? Here's How to Do It in a Way That Feels Good With Lauren Larkin
- Shannon Jackson
- Oct 20, 2024
- 36 min read
Contemplating Therapy? Here's How to Do It in a Way That Feels Good With Lauren Larkin
Therapy—whether it’s your first time or you're jumping back in—it can feel super daunting. Where do you even start? What should you expect? How do I find a therapist? Is it going to be awkward? What if I don't connect with the therapist? In this episode of A Healthy Push podcast, I sat down with Lauren Larkin, a psychotherapist, to talk about all things therapy, and she had some amazing insights to share!
How Do You Know It’s Time for Therapy?
Lauren says if you’ve been stuck in the same patterns—whether it’s in relationships, work, or just feeling stuck—therapy could be a great next step. You don’t have to be going through a massive crisis to benefit. Sometimes, you just need a little space to figure things out, gain awareness, and unpack the things you’ve been carrying around.
Patterns are a big clue. If you keep finding yourself in the same frustrating situations over and over, that’s your signal that something needs to shift. Therapy can help you figure out why those patterns exist and how to break free from them.
Finding the Right Therapist
Here’s where it gets tricky—finding a therapist can feel like speed dating. Lauren suggests booking 15-minute consultation calls (usually free!). In just a few minutes, you’ll get a gut feeling about whether this person is right for you. Look for someone who makes you feel safe, calm, and understood. It’s all about the connection—more important than any fancy credentials or techniques.
Some resources that can help:
What Happens in Therapy?
First off, therapy isn’t about walking into a room, spilling all your deepest, darkest secrets, and expecting the therapist to magically fix everything. Lauren explains how therapy is about creating a relationship. It’s about you setting the pace, deciding what you’re ready to share, and your therapist helping you feel safe in the process.
Some people are ready to unload everything right away, while others take their time. There is no right or wrong approach. A good therapist will help guide you toward awareness, understanding, and small steps that can help you make real changes in your life.
What If It’s Not a Good Fit?
What happens if you just don’t click with your therapist? Maybe something feels off, or you’re not feeling seen and heard. It’s okay to leave a therapist if it’s not working!
The key is to protect your own well-being. If you’re not connecting with your therapist or feel uncomfortable, it’s totally fine to switch. Trust yourself to know when something’s not a good fit. Therapy is supposed to be about you, so if it’s not working, move on and find someone who’s a better match.
Making Therapy Worthwhile
Maybe you’ve found the right therapist and you’re showing up to sessions, but how do you make sure you’re getting the most out of it? Lauren stresses the importance of self-compassion. Just showing up for therapy is a big deal. You’re carving out time for yourself, making space to focus on your mental and emotional health. That’s huge! Even if you feel like you’re not making massive breakthroughs every time, remember that small shifts are happening behind the scenes.
To really make therapy work, Lauren suggests taking time outside of sessions to reflect, with meaningful change happening when you're integrating what you’re learning into your daily life.
I absolutely loved this conversation! Therapy really can be a life-changer, but it’s not an overnight fix. It’s a safe space to explore, reflect, and grow—at your own pace. Whether you're just thinking about it or are ready to dive in, take it one step at a time. If you'd like to hear more from Lauren, you can connect with her below!
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TRANSCRIPT
00:01.38
ahealthypush
All right. I am so excited for this conversation. I know I say that all the freaking time, but I really am. I have Lauren here and we're going to chat about therapy, which I don't know how I haven't gotten to this topic, seeming how I have over a hundred podcast episodes at this point. But anyway, Lauren, welcome to a Healthy Push podcast.
00:22.23
Lauren Larkin
Thank you, Shannon. I'm so excited to be here and talk about therapy. Obviously I'm a therapist, so I'm a huge proponent of therapy and I love talking about it and just making it as relatable as possible and like accessible as possible to people who maybe think like should I be in therapy? Should I not be in therapy? Like therapy can be whatever you make it and whatever you need it to be. So it's kind of a fun topic that we're going to talk about today and hopefully we can get some people on the bandwagon.
00:49.10
ahealthypush
Yeah, I am so, so excited. I'm such an advocate of therapy. I've done it for years and years and years at different points and for different things. And it has been helpful in many ways, but I know people have had those instances, right, where it hasn't gone so well. So we'll get into all of it, but let's just start. Tell us a little bit about Lauren.
01:09.14
Lauren Larkin
Okay, so I am Lauren. I'm a therapist in New York City. I'm a career changer. So I used to work in media marketing. I really wanted to do like film and music stuff. I ended up working like kind of adjacent to that area, doing some PR lifestyle assistant type stuff um in the women's rights field, which was really cool when I first moved to New York. So that kind of ties into some of my specialties with working with women, the ways in which kind of our healthcare care system has missed the mark or not really like given enough support to women like in the trauma aspect of things, which I could go on and on about, but I won't.
01:45.02
ahealthypush
Thank you.
01:46.77
Lauren Larkin
Um, so I kind of look back on my career and I like think about how now I'm doing content creation, I'm acting and performing my own skits about therapy and about the world on social.
01:58.07
Lauren Larkin
I used to want to be an actress that used to want to be in an entertainment. And then I'm doing marketing and PR, which was my past career as well for therapy, which is my main gig, my, you know, kind of main career right now after going back to school.
02:13.81
Lauren Larkin
So I love this idea of like, you can be multiple different things and multiple different times in your life. You can always change your life. You can change the career trajectory that you are on.
02:24.86
Lauren Larkin
You can find ways to do things that you love for your career.
02:28.68
ahealthypush
Yeah.
02:30.20
Lauren Larkin
after my whole experience and like my life. And now like I have women who work with me and I'm supervising and teaching. So I feel like I get to do so many different things every day, all day long. I get to come on podcasts. I get to like practice speaking engagements. I get to write and like contribute to different things. I get to do one-on-one therapy. I get to be silly and creative on social media. So I love my job. I'm obsessed with it.
02:56.11
Lauren Larkin
Like obviously not everyone wants to work every day, but I do wake up every day and I'm like, oh, I like my job and I'm happy with what I'm doing. But that's me and that's what I'm kind of doing in the day to day in the world.
03:06.59
ahealthypush
Oh, that's amazing. I love that. And honestly, when I came across you, the the first word that sort of came to my brain was relatable yet like you are very relatable. And it's refreshing, I think to see a therapist that is very relatable and just kind of honest and you can tell you're really just who you are on your platform as you are in your real quote, real life, right? So ah let's dig in. Let's start with how do you know, like if therapy might be a good thing that you should venture into?
03:37.54
Lauren Larkin
So this is how clinically I look at every client that comes into my space. And I'm a relational therapist, so I see the relationship between the therapist and the client as the tool itself a lot of the times, right? You are recreating or creating safe spaces in relationships where you can explore yourself, your relationship to others, and your relationship to the world.
04:03.04
Lauren Larkin
um so If there have been repeated issues in your social, occupational, or relational spaces, I would say therapy is a great place to go and try and suss out what those are. If you're saying you know ah repeatedly that you're having the same patterns play out in maybe romantic or friendships, if you're feeling stuck, stuck is a big word that a lot of people use when they wanna come to therapy for the first time. If you're feeling like you have these goals or aspirations and you're not able to really like
04:33.89
Lauren Larkin
manifest or make what you're wanting to happen happen. Sometimes having another person who is a completely unbiased sounding board for you to say, hey, let's dig into your childhood a little bit. I think there's some unprocessed undigested stuff there.
04:50.13
Lauren Larkin
hey, here's a term you may have never heard before because unless you're constantly consuming therapy information, you might not be exposed to what being parentified means or neglect or the definition of trauma, right?
04:56.20
ahealthypush
Mm.
05:04.22
Lauren Larkin
I think a lot of people go about their life and they think I'm good, I'm fine, I'm lucky, I should be grateful.
05:09.72
ahealthypush
Mm.
05:10.48
Lauren Larkin
All of those things can be true. And there can be some stuff that we need to address. And another person who has a specific set of skills for addressing mental health issues can share with you, hey, let's look at this a little bit deeper. Let's look at this and see how it might inform the way that you think about yourself. Because you're having a million, I don't even know what the correct scientific number for how many thoughts we have a day is, probably millions and millions of thoughts per day. How are you thinking about yourself? What's being reinforced in those thoughts? and then what
05:45.87
Lauren Larkin
actions and relationships are reinforcing those as well. And what's keeping you in that pattern. We can't disrupt that pattern until we address what it is, identify it, and then dismantle it. So that's what I do with clients a lot in therapy. That's what my team is working on with clients a lot in therapy. We're literally figuring out what's your narrative. Where did it come from? Who do you want to be in the world? And how do we just get you a little bit closer to living that out?
06:12.96
Lauren Larkin
It's trial and error. It's a lot of hard work. And sometimes the space is just I need to vent. I need to have a space where I can go and put all my emotions. And then we close the container and you are holding him for me. And then I come back to you next week and you can help you can ah see me and witness my pain. And you are not asking me to do anything differently. So it's all it's a lot of different things.
06:36.66
Lauren Larkin
I would say the more high functioning people in the world who are perfectionists or go getters or whatever words you want to look at it as often think they don't need therapy because they've got it together and they're okay. Or you know someone might feel shame around going and sharing their emotions because they've never shared them before. So I think it's a lot of just misconceptions on what therapy is. You either have to be crazy to go to therapy or your problems aren't bad enough to go to therapy.
07:03.71
Lauren Larkin
But really there's so much we can do even if you feel like there's not a lot to talk about.
07:08.99
ahealthypush
I love that. I think that you sort of just hit the nail on the head therapy can be really scary. I think because you're sort of thinking about rate approaching it and not knowing what is going to happen. What is it going to look like? like What are we going to get into? And like maybe there are things that I don't want to get into. you right And I think we have this idea where you go into therapy and you're just going to unload it all. And and like the therapist is really going to dig. And i mean it's so overwhelming, I think, especially if you've never been in therapy to think about, OK, what is going to go down? like How uncomfortable is it going to be? right Because it is.
07:46.50
ahealthypush
Um, but I think you shared something that definitely resonated for me in starting therapy. And it was having just an awareness, like starting to develop in an awareness of what the heck was going on. Cause when I started therapy, it was just, there was so much anxiety, so much panic, like all the things going on. And I was just so dysregulated and being able to have somebody help me.
08:10.10
ahealthypush
slow things down and understand what was actually going on and help me to understand like what I was doing that was actually contributing to a lot of the anxiety.
08:21.01
ahealthypush
It's just like you said, like patterns. You get stuck in these patterns and you don't even recognize that they're sort of there and somebody can help you to be able to say, hey, like are you aware? let's like Let's look at this.
08:32.76
ahealthypush
So the awareness is so helpful. Like you said, sometimes just freaking venting to be like,
08:37.60
Lauren Larkin
Yeah.
08:38.72
ahealthypush
everything is so hard and this sucks. And also like getting actions, right? That was sort of my big thing too, was like, i I love going, right? And being able to get the awareness and to unload and to vent. But then I was like, okay, I need you to help me, like tell me what the heck to do. And I think that's a misconception right about therapy too, is you just go and you vent and you talk and you don't actually like work through things. But I think that's so not the case. I mean, can you speak to that?
09:10.40
Lauren Larkin
Absolutely. ah There's so much going through my head when you're speaking is like, one, that's why I'm a proponent of longer term therapy and building a really safe and stable relationship, because I think it can be overwhelming to say, I have so much that I need to share with this person and it's scary.
09:25.44
Lauren Larkin
And I don't want to feel the pressure to share on a timeline that doesn't work for me. And sometimes people will come in and they'll dump everything out. And that's sometimes a good thing. Sometimes they're not ready to do that with someone and they experience flooding and then they're trauma responses are even stronger and they're even more dysregulated because then they just feel shame for sharing too quickly versus like building that relationship and sharing when it feels right.
09:50.34
Lauren Larkin
So it's like there's two sides of every coin when it comes to who's coming to therapy and what they might need. I like to say, like let's just start easy.
10:00.44
Lauren Larkin
like Just tell me a little bit about yourself. like let's Let me kind of figure out where I might want to take this eventually. But you're in the driver's seat, right?
10:08.18
ahealthypush
Yeah.
10:10.06
Lauren Larkin
you share on your timeline when you want to. And then there is something really great about what you're saying about the insight and awareness. Sometimes that's all somebody needs. Sometimes someone just needs insight and awareness, and then they are going to start automatically making different little baby changes.
10:27.43
Lauren Larkin
I i like love a baby step.
10:28.34
ahealthypush
Yeah.
10:29.35
Lauren Larkin
I love a baby step in therapy. I'm like, we don't need to up a bend. We don't need to,
10:36.15
ahealthypush
yeah
10:36.52
Lauren Larkin
you know what the word I'm looking for, ah totally undo your whole life and rewrite it.
10:38.00
ahealthypush
Right.
10:40.96
Lauren Larkin
Like let's just make some small sustainable changes in your life.
10:41.70
ahealthypush
Mm-hmm.
10:45.39
Lauren Larkin
And yes, we, I think people want us to tell them what to do, but a good therapist will outline many different paths that a client could potentially take or pull out strengths that they're already seeing in the client and build on those.
11:03.22
Lauren Larkin
and ultimately allow the client to choose their own actions at the end of the day or help them come to conclusions or actions or steps that feel right to them because we are actually not advice givers.
11:17.37
ahealthypush
Yeah.
11:17.45
Lauren Larkin
We will share different tidbits and things that we're hearing and clients will interpret that as my therapist told me to do X. But what's so funny is like oftentimes if a client comes in to me the next week and says, I did what you told me to do, I'll be like,
11:24.93
ahealthypush
ah
11:33.71
Lauren Larkin
Interesting, because I don't really tell people what to do. So what is it that you thought I said? Or what was the conclusion that you came up with from our session?
11:39.19
ahealthypush
yeah
11:42.19
Lauren Larkin
And I think that's even more empowering. You're not just going around doing what your therapist tells you to do. You're understanding yourself to the point where you get to make your next steps, come up with them, try them out.
11:53.80
Lauren Larkin
And if they did it work great, if they worked amazing, perfect. Keep going in that direction. If they were not quite hitting the nail on the head, Let's keep exploring.
12:05.48
Lauren Larkin
It takes the pressure off.
12:05.79
ahealthypush
Yeah,
12:06.89
Lauren Larkin
like You're not going to make your therapist unhappy because you didn't do what they said, if that makes sense.
12:12.11
ahealthypush
yeah yeah, no, I like I think, you know, I It's probably great a coping mechanism to be like, just tell me what to do, right? And I'll do it. And then that means I'm going to get better. And this is something I see often with the students that I work with. And it makes sense. I mean, that's how I always approached things when I was struggling. I was like, just tell me what to do so that I can get better. But I think getting the insights, the awareness, being able to talk through things,
12:37.80
ahealthypush
then led me to have my own sort of knowing come through of like, okay, I sort of know what I need to do. It's just actually doing it and getting that support and guidance from a therapist to sort of help like bring me along, right? Like give me that those nudges that I need to actually do the things. But um okay, so I want to get into like how to actually find a therapist because I think this is one of the most cringe It's so freaking hard. It's so hard. I know like probably, gosh, this is probably a year ago, I got back into therapy and I needed to find a new therapist because I was going through something very different that I'd never been through and I was like, how the heck? like
13:25.01
ahealthypush
how do I find someone? And I remember getting on like a couple of phone calls and just having these brief conversations with therapists. And I remember just like I felt and like it clicked. Like I just connected with this person over like a 10 minute phone call and it was very easy to talk to her. But I want to hear from your perspective, like how do you even begin to find a therapist if you're like, even if you've been in therapy before, I don't think it's easy to find a therapist.
13:50.22
Lauren Larkin
No, it's so hard. And that's why I never judge people for saying I've wanted to get into this for so long. And I just haven't done it because it's a huge step forward. It's a huge commitment. I know it's financially draining.
14:01.89
ahealthypush
Hmm.
14:01.92
Lauren Larkin
I know it is hard, right, to find somebody. There's the system is set up just so everybody knows the system is actually not set up for therapists to be very successful unless they are doing not taking insurance because insurance companies make everything so difficult for therapists to
14:08.61
ahealthypush
Yeah.
14:18.89
Lauren Larkin
um like panel and then they have to prove to, i don't I don't use insurance. So I don't even know exactly how hard it is, but they basically don't set therapists up for financial success if they're taking insurance. So I just want to apologize to everyone on behalf of therapists. That's why so many therapists are out of pocket or out of network because we need to financially sustain ourselves. So I know a lot of people want to find somebody in network and that can be challenging, but there are resources like Alma,
14:48.21
Lauren Larkin
um and headway and like a couple other spaces out there that I think do a really good job of both helping therapists do the insurance piece and then like helping clients find someone who matches with their insurance and then if you're really willing to pay a little bit more or if you have good out-of-network benefits which I always recommend clients actually find out what their out-of-network benefits are or if you're younger you might still be on your parents insurance and a lot more might be covered than you actually think it is.
15:16.62
Lauren Larkin
So utilize that and take advantage of it. um If you want to work with someone out of network or in network, exactly what you just said. It's speed dating. Set up a lot of calls. Set up the 15 minute free consultation calls.
15:29.61
Lauren Larkin
It's not a financial commitment. It is just your 15 minutes of your time to talk to somebody you will be able to tell exactly like you just said. You'll get a gut feeling.
15:37.71
ahealthypush
Hmm.
15:38.87
Lauren Larkin
You'll hear that person's voice. You'll get a good sense of Does this person understand me? How does this person work? What are they bringing to a full session? And then you go to the full session and you don't have to commit from there either.
15:50.90
ahealthypush
Mm-hmm.
15:52.42
Lauren Larkin
Right. I say to clients in intakes, you you're going to tell me if this is a good fit, I'm going to probably end it five minutes earlier than the 45 minutes just to check in with you.
16:04.30
Lauren Larkin
How did today feel for you? And I'm going to keep checking in with you throughout the years of us working together. Now I've been working with people for four or five years, you know, and at different times, there's been times where they've needed more or a different approach. And we've either added that supplementally or, you know, they've taken breaks and then they've come back to me for more of the relational work. It's like such a great thing to have somebody in your life even be able to say, I think you're ready to step down or I think you might need a DBT specialist and I'm not a DBT specialist or anything along those lines where it's like, we're just having an ongoing open conversation about
16:41.13
Lauren Larkin
how this relationship feels for you and what you are getting from this space. So if you feel like your person is not doing that or isn't even offering 15 minute free phone calls um and is really pushing for you to come in there and have a full session, those would kind of be things that I would say not my favorite.
16:45.70
ahealthypush
Yeah.
16:59.90
Lauren Larkin
And I do think social media is so great now that there's so many therapists out there on social media showing a little bit about what it might be like to work with you. so that you can get a sense like I'm always trying to get my team to do videos. They hate it. I love them so much. But I'm ah I'm a video person. They don't love to be on video. But I'm like, you guys, if people don't see you, they don't see your personality, they don't know a little bit about you, it's gonna be a lot harder for them to feel like they could be comfortable with you. Yes, people trust me. And I think that they trust that I will set them up with someone who's great. But at the same time, if they know
17:33.51
Lauren Larkin
a fun fact about you or if they see you talking or if they see us laughing and joking around and having a good time together. It's a lot more of a warm picture that they're going to get of the person that they're going to be trusting with their deepest, darkest, hardest life stuff that I think is really important. So I'm a huge advocate advocate for a therapist being on social media. You don't have to have a huge following in order to find the clients that are meant to find you. Like I have one friend who She's mostly on Instagram and then she went on TikTok.
18:03.85
Lauren Larkin
She posted one TikTok and she got a client from it. And it's like, great. People saw you speaking. It ended up on the right for you page or explore page. And now this person has a therapist that they could work with for years.
18:12.79
ahealthypush
yeah
18:16.95
Lauren Larkin
It's so great. So I think doing your research, there's lots of different like platforms out there. Psychology today used to be like the ah the gold standard. I still think it is. I think a lot of people still have profiles up on site today.
18:29.50
Lauren Larkin
But they you know are also investing in their websites and their social media presences. And you just got to look for somebody who's licensed in your state. And I think that can be the trickiest part.
18:39.13
ahealthypush
Yeah. Yeah.
18:39.27
Lauren Larkin
People want to work with somebody that they see and then they find out that they're not licensed in their area. I would love to see our industry move towards and they are moving towards kind of like side packs and you know counseling compacts where different states are just signing over like Florida right now. Florida doesn't care if anybody does telehealth there. And I'm like, good, especially given everything that's going on with the hurricanes. Good. They should allow practitioners to do virtual therapy in their area. And I think the world is moving in that direction. So hopefully one day it won't be an issue where you are. You can find the person that's best suited for you and you can make it work that way. But right now we still are confined to state to state laws and
19:20.55
Lauren Larkin
That's a bit of a bummer, but that'll help you narrow down your search.
19:24.33
ahealthypush
Yeah, I think so. This is one of the great parts of social media. I think is exactly what you said. Like if I can come across somebody that I potentially could do therapy with and I can get a little glimpse into who they are and how they might be able to help me, like it makes it so easier.
19:40.73
ahealthypush
um but i think too right there's I had to go into it with this openness, which is really hard because you're already going through really tough stuff, assuming, right? If you're going to start therapy or thinking about starting therapy and you're in this place where things already feel uneasy, and uncomfortable, like you're struggling,
20:01.82
ahealthypush
But I had to keep reminding myself, like Shannon, you've got to be open. You've got to be open because this person could be really helpful. But you don't know, right? And like you said, go to the first session, give it a couple of sessions, and then see. You know you don't have to figure it out right away. And I think that's really helpful. What if you don't vibe with a therapist? Because I know that can be really hard. And people will literally just stay with that therapist because then they feel like I have to. I'm stuck here.
20:31.06
Lauren Larkin
I know that's what's so hard. It's like I feel for the people who are stuck with a therapist and they feel like they're, especially if you have people pleasing tendencies already, or you have a fear of making someone upset, maybe you have trauma in your past of like every time you spoke up, you were met with a negative response and you don't feel comfortable doing that yet. You are going to have that same difficulty with your therapist because you haven't been able to solve that issue or work through that problem.
20:59.51
Lauren Larkin
with this therapist, right? So sometimes, and this is gonna sound crazy, but it's okay to ghost your therapist. We're used to it. We've had it happen to us before. No therapist who's been in this game has never not been ghosted. Like that's not a thing. So I think that I respect the way that people need to end relationships in whatever way is best for them. If it's email, if it's phone, if it's a full session termination, which is our ideal because that just helps us end relationships differently than we end them in the world. Right now we are in a big ghosting culture. So I do think that it is not my favorite way to end a relationship. But if that's what you have to do because that's how you to keep yourself safe and you're not at the point where you can have the distress tolerance to end a relationship face to face with a therapist
21:50.12
Lauren Larkin
It's going to be the same thing. Do what you need to do to end that relationship and go find a person that you can work on that problem with, right?
21:56.97
ahealthypush
Yeah.
21:57.46
Lauren Larkin
The assertiveness training that you might need or letting people down or disappointing people. That might be a whole other thing that you got to work on with a therapist who is a better fit for you. I have been in therapy myself many different times in my life.
22:11.63
Lauren Larkin
And there was one therapist I went to in New York who was probably the worst fit I could have ever, ever tried to see. And it was a traumatizing experience of itself. And there are a lot of therapists out there who are not great therapists, and there are people who are creating more harm in the world. So I really do say end that relationship as quickly as possible for you and protect you yourself. Don't worry about the therapist. That's their job. They are trained and have supervision and have de support for figuring out what it feels like when a client terminates and figuring out their own client retention issues.
22:47.95
Lauren Larkin
If it's not a good fit, we shouldn't want to keep you anyway.
22:51.52
ahealthypush
Yeah. I love that. I love that you included that. I think that's hugely important and helpful to hear from a therapist. So ah how do you know, cause I know like ah my audience, right? My community, they're mostly struggling with an anxiety disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobia. It's like really, really tough stuff. And I think when you're looking into therapy, it's so overwhelming because there are so many different modalities. It's like, this person does CBT. This person does EMDR. or This person does DBT. Like.
23:22.80
ahealthypush
and You don't even know half the time what these acronyms mean and you're like, what the heck do I even need? What's going to be helpful? like am Should I get a therapist who is trained in this specific thing or does that really matter? like Can you help us with that? Because I think that's such a sticky point too for people.
23:42.75
Lauren Larkin
Okay, so my favorite thing about the research around this is that it's actually not about what the modality is, it's about the connection. So yes, they say there's certain evidence-based practices that have had the most funding and have had the most research done on them.
23:50.48
ahealthypush
and
23:57.38
Lauren Larkin
But at the very end of the day, if your therapist has a good relationship with you, then you are going to get the most out of therapy.
24:08.06
Lauren Larkin
And that is actually what the research suggests. However, there are different modalities that are different for, or different modalities that are better for different people and different presenting problems. So it really I think depends on personality. It depends on sometimes sometimes spirituality. It depends on how much you know other work have you done already and what has worked and what hasn't worked. And I think some people love homework, some people hate homework, some people really love mindfulness and you know, something like DDT really has mindfulness at its core. Some people, you know, really want to have space to just talk. And that's going to be a little bit more psychodynamic, a little bit more psychoanalytical. Some people need to work on their childhood, so they need to have somebody who has specialty training in childhood issues or know trauma in childhood and how that presents. um And some people
25:05.25
Lauren Larkin
are going to also need medication with therapy. And it's not going to just be a therapy modality that works best. It's going to be the therapy and the medication that works best or, and the holistic health coaching. And the, you know, I always liked my training from and NYU because I did a mental health counseling and wellness program. And for me, that and wellness was a big deal because I had been through a lot of therapy. I had gone to a treatment center for my eating disorder.
25:32.95
Lauren Larkin
I had done pretty CBT style work on food and my relationship with body and all that stuff. And then there was more. There was more that had to be done. There was integration into my life. There was trauma work. There was all this other stuff that was deeper than just the CBT. but Although I have nothing against CBT and I think that it really did help me change my entire brain and neural pathway around food.
25:57.50
Lauren Larkin
like Sometimes I sit back and I think, what were those thoughts that I used to have? like Those don't even feel connected to me anymore.
26:01.82
ahealthypush
yeah
26:03.83
Lauren Larkin
So I think that it's a combination a lot of the times. I love being sort of, ah even though I'm predominantly relational, I pull from everywhere. I pull from all the different tools.
26:15.72
Lauren Larkin
I'm reading, I'm listening, I'm learning as much as I possibly can be because how could we possibly have all these therapists with all these amazing skill sets and have there only be one that's the best one.
26:26.59
Lauren Larkin
If there was only one that was the best one, everybody would do that, right?
26:27.34
ahealthypush
Yeah. Yeah.
26:31.45
Lauren Larkin
and Instead, we have an array of specialists. We have an array of people doing very different types of work or wording the same type of work in a different way. A lot of these concepts are actually pretty similar.
26:43.77
Lauren Larkin
If you really boil them down, they just hit differently for different clients. So if you have different skills, different words, different exercises, different language to describe what you're talking about with a client, I think you're going to be in a lot better of a position. But at the end of the day, it's really the relationship. It's how safe do you feel with this person to be able to go deeper?
27:07.38
ahealthypush
I love that. like I couldn't love this answer anymore. I think that, like I was saying with the phone call, I could tell, okay, I'm connecting with this person. This feels good. and It was super helpful. and and Though, I'll share, be very honest, she was very trained in EMDR and like had mentioned that and I was like, oh God, like do I need that? Because you know your brain goes to okay like like trauma. right like I don't really feel like that fits. But as we got into things and we built that connection and I felt more safety and trust with her, I was like, okay, let's try it. like I'll give it a shot. I'll see. you know and
27:42.44
ahealthypush
that openness again was super helpful. But the most helpful thing I found with any of the therapists that I've had the most success with is I felt really connected to them. I had a really good relationship with them. And that I think is what makes it so successful.
27:57.37
ahealthypush
Um, okay. How the heck, this is a big question. Do you make it worthwhile? Like when you actually start therapy and you get in, because I think I self-sabotage myself quite often throughout the whole process.
28:14.81
ahealthypush
And I look back and I'm just like, Oh my God, Shannon, like why you were paying for that? And like, what, what were you doing?
28:21.67
Lauren Larkin
no.
28:21.89
ahealthypush
Um, but it it was because it was scary. Like I was, I was scared. I was uncomfortable, all the things, but How do you make therapy worthwhile once you actually get started?
28:31.72
Lauren Larkin
Such a tricky question because I'm such just a self compassion focused therapist and I put that lens on all my work.
28:36.29
ahealthypush
Yep.
28:38.91
Lauren Larkin
So I would push back and say none of it was a waste of time. and remembering that because, okay, let's just start out from zero. You make the commitment to start having date-like calls with a therapist. That's going to do something to your anxiety levels. That's going to do something to your self-esteem. That's going to do something to your motivation to do other things that are good for you, that are helpful to you. Same thing with showing up to the appointment. Having that appointment on your calendar is like a placebo effect sometimes of like,
29:10.11
Lauren Larkin
finding some relief in your day to day. And you might not be acutely aware of that. You might still feel like you're in a tornado of your life. What am I doing? I'm not doing enough. I should be doing more or I should be making the most of this in a better way.
29:24.56
Lauren Larkin
like And I think that that's why I'm pushing back on that mindset because I think that even just having the appointment, showing up to the appointment, showing up for yourself and remembering what a huge deal that is, whether you talked about
29:32.59
ahealthypush
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
29:38.83
Lauren Larkin
the TV show that you watched last night, or you talked about the mental breakdown that you had that morning, it is going to still be a useful part of your time because you're training your brain to make space for yourself.
29:50.93
ahealthypush
Mm.
29:51.84
Lauren Larkin
You're taking 45 minutes out of your day for only yourself and you're putting your phone away. Those behaviors in and of themselves, they translate, they ripple effect out into the rest of your life.
30:05.49
Lauren Larkin
So you might not be thinking, that first few months in therapy, oh my God, what was I doing? But if we went back and we could watch your life on a video camera, we'd probably see other changes that you were making, mental shifts or physical shifts in your time or ways that you were taking care of yourself just by having that appointment on the calendar, just by building that relationship with your therapist, because it was such a good relationship, right?
30:16.84
ahealthypush
and
30:22.86
ahealthypush
Blending.
30:28.73
Lauren Larkin
This one that you're talking about. So I would push back and say you are making the most of it.
30:33.08
ahealthypush
Mm hmm.
30:34.43
Lauren Larkin
You are even if you're just showing up. And then to answer your question for all my go-getters and my perfectionists and my people who are really maybe wanting to make the most of it.
30:45.91
Lauren Larkin
And that means different things to different people.
30:48.83
ahealthypush
Yeah.
30:49.00
Lauren Larkin
You know, I would say find more time to reflect. So if you are already making this space for yourself, maybe make a few minutes of time on the other days that you're not in therapy to reinforce some of what you talked about with your therapist or let out your emotions in a journal or in a voice note to yourself or go on a mindful walk and don't bring your phone and don't be on social media. Like build on the stuff that therapy already presents in your life or make mindful focus time to think about a concept that your therapist might have shared with you. Look up the thought or the insight that the therapist shared with you. If the therapist shares a podcast or an an idea or a journaling or homework type exercise,
31:35.02
Lauren Larkin
Do it, right? Build on the space that is already on your calendar. It's called a habit stacking, right? So after therapy, maybe don't rush immediately into another meeting. Add something else. Do something else that's good for you, right? Just in the 15 minutes afterward, go drink a glass of water. think about Think about it that way and think, okay, if I'm doing this one good thing for myself, what else can I do?
32:01.55
ahealthypush
Yeah, I think that's so helpful looking at it that way. I'm glad you pulled in the self-compassion piece because I think that's so hard for all of us to do and it takes so much dang practice. But yeah, just reminding yourself that you taking this action is a really big action that's really helpful.
32:10.55
Lauren Larkin
Yeah.
32:16.33
ahealthypush
And I think oftentimes I looked at it as, and I think this is really common, like I'm not getting anything out of this. Like this isn't really doing anything. And I think people often feel that way.
32:28.26
ahealthypush
Like I'm showing up. sort of every week or biweekly, whatever. And I feel like it's just not doing anything. And it's so hard, I think, to see the changes when you're in it. Like you said, if you could go back and watch a video, like stuff's happening. like You would see it as subtle as the changes are. You would see them.
32:49.27
ahealthypush
But when you're so in it, it's so hard to see like that what you're learning, the steps that you're taking are actually like building new pathways and doing really helpful things for you. but So I think that's a big part. And and I think the other part, like I would say in therapy, and I'm glad you mentioned like you know taking the actions outside of therapy because I think for a long time I sort of had this expectation that I go to therapy and like that's the fix right like that like I sit in here yeah like i'm I'm paying a good amount of money for this like I sit down and like this is it and then I realized I was having so many aha moments in therapy which for me as an
33:16.76
Lauren Larkin
That's supposed to help me. right
33:30.30
ahealthypush
an intellectualizer as somebody who loves to like problem solve and figure things out, I would have these light bulb moments and be like, oh my gosh, yes, I didn't think of that before. or Oh yeah, like that makes sense.
33:42.17
ahealthypush
And I would leave and then just go back to autopilot and be like, no life you know, existing as I normally.
33:47.74
Lauren Larkin
Life goes on.
33:48.78
ahealthypush
Yeah.
33:49.46
Lauren Larkin
Yep.
33:49.90
ahealthypush
And I really had to like slow things down. and be like, okay, Shannon, it's great that you had an aha moment, but like what are we doing with it? like We actually have to create some actionable steps. And I think that was where I started to listen to myself to be like, okay, yes, that's a great aha moment, but how do we put that into practice? And and then it's heart rate to not put all this pressure on yourself to be like, okay, and then you're going to do this and this and this. You can see right the type of person I am probably.
34:18.79
Lauren Larkin
Oh, 100%. I relate to the type of person that you are so much. And it's actually my favorite type of client to work with is the person who really is motivated to make those changes. And that's such a beautiful thing.
34:29.27
Lauren Larkin
To want an aha moment, every therapy session, to want those action items.
34:31.68
ahealthypush
Mm-hmm.
34:33.94
Lauren Larkin
But I will say this to the women that I supervise and that I train to be therapists, I often will say, you can't fix it for them. That's actually doing a disservice.
34:43.14
ahealthypush
Yeah.
34:45.28
Lauren Larkin
So if you have a therapist that's always telling you what to do or jumping in to tell you what they think, or trying to get you to do all these things at once. Actually, I do think that that might be a sign of a therapist's discomfort, right?
35:00.17
Lauren Larkin
But if a therapist is letting you roll with the timeline that works for you, reminding you that you don't have to have an aha moment every single time to make this space useful, reminding you that everything we've already done is good enough and we just have to keep building forward on that.
35:15.59
Lauren Larkin
It's okay to have goals, in aspirations, but it's not okay to beat ourselves down when we're not reaching them. right I think that that is the the better work, personally.
35:22.21
ahealthypush
Yeah.
35:27.94
Lauren Larkin
I think that it's it's showing our clients that we can witness them in any state and that we're not going to pressure them or push them like the world and like society does to be better or different.
35:28.28
ahealthypush
Yeah.
35:41.21
Lauren Larkin
We're just going to be with them in this space always. and I really think it's the most beautiful thing, even if I hear a client's frustration. What are we doing here? We're building a relationship. You're sharing the deepest parts of your soul with me and I'm witnessing them and I'm not asking you to be any different.
35:58.92
ahealthypush
Yeah, which is huge. It's huge. I am just thinking, right as you're talking, if somebody is giving you all these action items, and I've heard so many different stories about people being in therapy and having therapists really like hit hard on, we need to do nervous system regulation work. We need to to look into mindfulness. like You need to meditate. you need to Let's do some functional labs. let's and you know You're already, as the person struggling, feeling so overwhelmed and feeling like they've literally tried everything. Like, oh, no, no, no, no.
36:35.13
ahealthypush
I have tried a lot of this work. I've done a lot of this and I find a lot of people who come to me, it's not that we need to add more. We need to like take a lot of stuff away and pull back on the doing because there's just so much going, going, going, thinking that, you know, and it's a coping mechanism. Obviously, I know it's a big one for me. Like if I just keep going and doing, I'm going to somehow reach this arbitrary finish line.
36:58.85
ahealthypush
But slowing things down, right? Because I think when you try to add all the things and do all the things, you just find it heightens so much of your emotions and just anxiety that you might already be experiencing. So I'm glad you said that because I think that is really tricky. You think I'm here to do the work, right? But I think we misinterpret what the work actually means.
37:20.85
Lauren Larkin
And we could risk creating a space that's similar to other spaces our clients have experienced before, like being the critical parent all over again, or being you know the partner who
37:26.65
ahealthypush
Hmm.
37:33.96
Lauren Larkin
nothing this client does was ever good enough. And then all of a sudden, if their own therapist is asking more and more and more, it's going to create those same deepenings of the wounds that they made already have. So when I challenge clients, I am very careful about it. I will only really make stronger suggestions when I feel very, very strongly about it, or when we've tried many different things, or we've been working together for many different years, or if I'm seeing symptoms of like,
38:04.40
Lauren Larkin
depression or an eating disorder or something where they do objectively need more support, but it's not in the conversation of, and I'm going to leave you if you don't do this or, and you know what I mean?
38:15.71
Lauren Larkin
It's like, I'm going to suggest this. You're always the person who's driving their own life. This is just a thought. What do you think about medication? Or this is a thought that I'm having.
38:26.04
Lauren Larkin
I want to share it with you. Are you able to receive it right now? Are you able to receive some challenging right now? I'll usually ask for permission.
38:33.68
ahealthypush
Hmm. Hmm.
38:34.79
Lauren Larkin
because some people are aware enough, right, if they've worked on the awareness of their own dysregulation to know, I don't know if I'm in a space to be challenged by you right now.
38:45.84
Lauren Larkin
And then we can advocate for that, right?
38:46.02
ahealthypush
Yeah.
38:48.23
Lauren Larkin
But it's it so tricky to toe that line and therapists, we do make mistakes. And what's great about therapy is that it is a safe space to discuss rupture and repair.
38:58.97
Lauren Larkin
And if I've offended a client or if I've missed the mark, I'm usually the first person to come in and say, okay, something happened last session that I feel funky about. I'm going to share it with you.
39:10.32
Lauren Larkin
What were your thoughts? What were your feelings? And sometimes they're like, Oh, no, I wasn't thinking about that at all. Or sometimes they're like, well I'm really glad you said that because I was feeling a little bit
39:17.08
ahealthypush
Yeah.
39:21.13
Lauren Larkin
you know, overstimulated or overwhelmed or feeling like I can't ever please you or whatever, you know, I'm using this example that we were just talking about kind of as an example of where that might happen. And then the repair that happens in those relationships. Again, that's a microcosm for the repair that they could have in other relationships outside in the world if they advocate for themselves and if they share. Yeah, that thing did kind of hurt me. Okay, let's move through it. What did it bring up for you? This was my intention when I shared it, but I realized I might have mimicked you know a conversation that I know you've had with your mom before, or I realized I might have hit one of your wounds when I did that.
39:57.97
Lauren Larkin
Did I? And if so, let's talk about it. Where else can you do that in the world? I get i feel like you can hardly ever do that unless you're overly-therapized in two friends that know exactly how to do it.
40:02.88
ahealthypush
Right.
40:10.29
ahealthypush
right Yeah, that's so powerful.
40:11.49
Lauren Larkin
It's really hard.
40:15.06
ahealthypush
So if somebody is thinking about starting therapy, whether it's like their first time ever, or they're thinking about getting back into therapy, like what's a piece of wisdom that you would share with that person?
40:28.54
Lauren Larkin
I think a lot of people, even if they don't feel like they have a strong sense of identity, they do know what safety feels like, even if they can't articulate it. So I think your example was so perfect.
40:40.44
Lauren Larkin
You had a feeling, you had a gut feeling, or you maybe had a lack of feelings.
40:45.46
ahealthypush
Yeah.
40:45.72
Lauren Larkin
So look at both, because even if you can't describe to me what safety feels like for you yet, you can listen to your body and you can listen to yourself when you're on these calls looking for a therapist.
40:56.81
Lauren Larkin
your intuition is there. Sometimes it's just other stuff is really, really loud. So if your alarm bells are quieter when you're on the phone with this person, or if you feel that sense of safety connection, ability to open up more than you typically do or more than you have with other people on these phone calls, listen and write down what your body feels like maybe before and after each of these calls or how this person made you feel.
41:23.24
Lauren Larkin
or if a color came to mind or if a sound or scent or you know what I mean?
41:26.00
ahealthypush
Yeah.
41:28.07
Lauren Larkin
Cause a lot of the times if you don't have language for what safety feels like, you're not going to be able to describe it yet and that's okay. But just listen, see if you can understand what's going on in your body, what is going on in your body a little bit more than maybe on a just regulated day where you're like, Oh my gosh, I don't even know what is going on.
41:36.46
ahealthypush
Yeah.
41:49.73
Lauren Larkin
I'm just doing, doing, doing, going, and going, going. quiet, give yourself a couple minutes to see if you can come up with any feeling or adjective for how that call went.
41:59.77
ahealthypush
Yeah.
42:00.19
Lauren Larkin
And if you felt really comfortable or if you felt really at ease or if you didn't hear the millions of thoughts that you always hear in your brain for a couple of those minutes, that might be a sign that this person could be a good fit for you.
42:15.30
ahealthypush
I love that. Okay, Lauren, if people want to find you connect with you learn more from you. Where can people find you?
42:23.14
Lauren Larkin
So we are LEL therapy, leltherapy.com. I'm the same username on Instagram and TikTok. There's more fun stuff on TikTok because I have been playing around with fashion and some sillier stuff. Instagram is still a little bit more business oriented. And if you're in New York and you're wanting to do one of those 15 minute consultation calls, I have an incredible team. So specialized in all these different things that we were talking about today.
42:50.27
Lauren Larkin
trying to balance out the tool giving and the relationship building. So please reach out. We would love, love, love to hear from you.
42:57.71
ahealthypush
Well, Lauren, thank you so much for coming on. This has been so awesome.
43:01.83
Lauren Larkin
Stan, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for thinking of me and having me. I'm honored to be one of your first therapy episodes ever.
43:06.88
ahealthypush
Oh, I love it.
43:07.76
Lauren Larkin
I'll be back if you ever want me.
43:09.64
ahealthypush
Yes, for sure. I love it.
