Anxiety Success Stories: Scarlett's Journey to Overcoming Emetophobia and Agoraphobia!
- Shannon Jackson
- Feb 4, 2024
- 3 min read
Scarlett is a former Panic to Peace student with an amazing story! Despite struggling with panic attacks for years, Scarlett recently finished her master’s degree and now works as a professional writer. Today she’s joining me to talk about her journey to recovering from panic disorder, emetophobia, and agoraphobia!
This might come as a bit of a spoiler… but today, Scarlett travels with her family and does many of the things she thought she’d never be able to do again. Her story is filled with so much inspiration, so let’s get into it!
How Panic Attacks Began to Shrink Scarlett’s World
Scarlett has struggled with panic attacks since she was sixteen years old. Despite these uncomfortable panic attacks, she was able to function normally until 2020, which is when the panic attacks became much more frequent. In response to these panic attacks, she quit her job and began restricting other areas of her life.
When Scarlett started to experience nausea as a result of the panic attacks, she started to restrict certain foods to avoid nausea and potentially vomiting. Ultimately, this led to Scarlett restricting foods she had no allergy to, which made it hard for her to eat a well-balanced diet. This intense fear and avoidance of vomiting is known as emetophobia.
Scarlett’s Journey To Overcoming Emetophobia
Scarlett mentioned that it was extremely difficult for her to find professional help for emetophobia and agoraphobia because she lives in a rural area. Ultimately, Scarlett joined Panic to Peace so she could start creating a healthy relationship with anxiety and panic attacks!
After years of trying to push away panic attacks and the symptoms they cause, Scarlett started to realize that this avoidance was fueling the anxiety. With lots of small steps and practice, she began to realize that she needed to allow herself to feel the nausea and panic. She started reminding herself that she was safe, even if she was nauseous, panicky, or scared.
As Scarlett started to make these shifts, she became much more confident in herself. In our conversation, she said “...That's when I stopped cycling through panic attacks all the time. And when they reduced to just 20 minutes and that was done, just by allowing myself to feel it and not trying to avoid it, and not taking like a Zofran to avoid vomiting…allowing myself like to eat foods that I was afraid of that I'm not allergic to, that's when I really started to make progress and get better”.
Where Scarlett Is Today
Scarlett is still on her journey to agoraphobia and emetophobia recovery, but she has made so much progress. And I am so incredibly proud of her! Recently, she went over 30 minutes from home to a New Year’s Eve party, which is something she hadn’t been able to do in over three years. And although panic still pops up from time to time, it looks a whole lot different. Now, she knows that she’s safe to experience panic, no matter where she is.
I hope that you enjoyed hearing a bit about Scarlett’s recovery journey! For all of the details about Scarlett’s story, make sure to listen to the full podcast episode.
And if you’re looking for some support in your recovery journey, you might love my 10-week program, Panic to Peace! My signature program provides you with the skills and tools you need to create a healthy relationship with anxiety and live a life filled with lots more peace, joy, and freedom. If you want to hear how Panic to Peace has changed the lives of my students, you can read their testimonials here!
TRANSCRIPT
Okay, today is one of those really special episodes where I have a panic Duffy student with me, and her name is Scarlet. And of course, you're gonna get to meet her. And I'm just really excited because we're going to be talking about something that I haven't yet talked about on the podcast, which is emetophobia. So, Scarlet, welcome to a healthy push podcast.
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I'm
so excited to have this conversation. This is such a, you know, specific phobia. But like we were just talking before I hit record, it's so intertwined with anxiety and panic, and there's just so much to it. Like, if you're not aware, right, I'm assuming you are aware that you hit play on this episode, you know that emetophobia is the fear of vomiting. But there's so much more to this fear. So let's just start with, who are you, Scarlett? Tell us a little bit about you.
Oh, well, I'm from North Carolina, and I am a professional writer, I just finished my master's degree. And I'm in the process of applying to PhD programs with the intention of starting my doctorate this fall. This is a really big step forward for me, because I've struggled with agoraphobia, and very severe panic disorder for about the past three years. So I'm very much at the point in my parent journey of experiencing the world again, going outside and challenging myself. And at the point where I can start pursuing my dreams again, I've always wanted to get my doctorate. So that's kind of where I am. And I'm really excited to be here to talk about panic disorder and motor phobia in particular, because I know a lot of people struggle with it, but it can feel very shameful and very difficult to talk about. So I thought that sharing my story would help other people feel like they're not alone. And, you know, yeah,
I love it. And this is such like you said, right, this can be a really embarrassing, shameful thing to talk about. And I'm just so dang proud of you for coming on. Because you're coming on with a mindset right of I know, this is going to help other people, because there are so many people out there struggling with this, but people just don't talk about it. They don't share it, because it can be embarrassing and can carry a lot of shame. So I'm so glad that we're gonna have this conversation. So I'm curious. I know you struggle with, you know, panic, anxiety, emetophobia. And it's sort of all intertwined. When did you really start to like notice it all popping up?
Before so I've always struggled with panic disorder a little bit. And a lot of like, this is a topic for an entirely different podcast, but a lot of living in the South. One of the biggest challenges is like health care access is not accessible. And mental health care in particular is not accessible whatsoever. It is in like the more urban areas but when you live in like a rural area, like you know, you have to drive two hours just to see like a therapist or get diagnosed. So a lot of what I struggled like I struggled so much with panic disorder, because I just didn't have access to any mental health care resources. But I really, I've had panic attacks since I was like 16 was when I started getting them. And, but it was always something that I could deal with. Before the pandemic, that's kind of where it got to the point where I couldn't function anymore because my panic was so bad and it's gone untreated for like 10 years. I'm self diagnosed myself. I like going on the internet. So about three years ago, I finally like went to see a psychiatrist and got officially diagnosed. But I noticed it because I used to kind of live like a rock and roll lifestyle. I'm a musician and a drummer, and I went to trade school and became a heavy equipment operator. So I was working in construction. And then at night I would go play shows. So I played as a drummer and a bunch of different bands. On the weekends I would go tour. During like the offseasons I would travel and play shows and cities like Atlanta. In New York, and then during the week i i operated big, terrifying machines, you know, I was a truck scraper operator. I worked in landscaping some and I operated things like you know, excavators and whatever. And during this period I went from like, having manageable anxiety where almost having anxiety helped me because it gave me energy to like, it was so unmanageable. I became, like, totally dysfunctional, and I couldn't leave my room anymore. Work became scary, because I would be like in a truck scraper, which is a huge machine, and it's very dangerous machine and I started having panic so bad that I, I couldn't focus I couldn't see. So I ended up quitting my job because I feared that I would be a danger to other people. And I like lost everything asked, my partner had to move back in with my parents and I became like, very, very agoraphobic, I didn't leave my room for about six months. And this was also during the pandemic on top of all of that. So that's kind of a little bit of my panic story. And emetophobia comes into it. From like the kind of panic attacks I have I, I have a couple of different phobias, but the most amount of phobias, the biggest one I struggled with, and there's like a difference, I hear people use the term emetophobia very loosely, sometimes like, I'm a metal phobic, I'm afraid of vomiting. But there's a difference between like just, you know, not like vomiting, because who does and then having Obeah to the point where it's disrupting your life. Like, I had it to the point where I stopped eating, because I was afraid that every thing I ate, would cause food poisoning or cause me to vomit. And that also affected my ability to work. And I would like and I still working through this, but I live on my a very, very restricted diet. I don't have any allergies, but like, I won't eat anything that could make me feel sick, like dairy products, or I cut out gluten, even though I don't have celiac disease or a gluten allergy. So that's still something I'm working on. The amount of phobia can cause you to like restrict foods because you're afraid that they're gonna make you sick. And then it also feeds into your panic disorder, where when I had panic attacks, like in the machinery when I was at work, I would my panic attacks make me nauseous because that's a common symptom of a panic attack. So when I got nauseous, then I was afraid our vomit and then my emetophobia would kick in. And then I'd have another panic attack about vomiting. So then you're stuck in the cycle. And then you just keep triggering new panic attacks. So a panic attack is only supposed to last like 20 minutes. But when you keep triggering yourself, they don't stop. So like I would go through, I would have panic attacks until my body exhausted all of its adrenaline. And then I would like crash. And you can't live this way. Like you're either constantly having a panic attack, like 20 minutes, and then it calmed down a little bit, and then it start over. Because you're just stuck in the cycle of like, my panic is causing emetophobia and my phobia is causing panic. And then you keep going like that. And I could keep going for 18 to 20 hours like that, and then I would crash and I couldn't get out of bed. And so like being stuck in the cycle eventually, like, I had to quit my job because I couldn't work. And that eventually changed my life. You know, I'm in a completely different career. And I miss working in construction. And I liked that lifestyle though it wasn't as sustainable as what I'm doing now. And I'm very happy that I discovered myself as a professional writer and went to graduate school and I'm on this new career path. And you know, everything worked out, but I'm sad that it happened because of panic. Yeah. Oh, of
course. I I'm so glad that you touched on this, like, the panic attacks make you nauseous, right. And then the feeling of being nauseous triggers more anxiety. I I know so many people can relate to that I had that with my whole toilet anxiety like and then you you're you just get stuck in this loop of like, oh my gosh, I have these feelings and then you think more about it and then you have more feelings and then the like you can't get off of this hamster wheel. I'm curious with the emetophobia was there like Do you remember there being like a certain event or a certain thing that sort of started it or it was just like this slow? Like when you'd have the panic If you need feel nauseous, it would it would trigger all of this.
Um, it started where the first time I had a panic attack was when I was like 16 years old, I grew up as a dancer, and I got a job teaching dance at a studio. My first day of teaching dance, I had a panic attack, and I had no idea what that was. And I vomited in front of all my students. And so that was like, so embarrassing. And like, like, it ended up being kind of traumatizing. So I've had panic attacks about vomiting ever since.
Yeah, of course, you have this instance, right? If something really embarrassing and really uncomfortable happening, and then you get stuck on it, right? You you're like, I will do anything to not experience that again. And I think it can happen like that, it can also happen where there isn't really an event there is not really this moment where you were, you're terribly sick, or you had the flu, or You vomited and or You vomited in front of people like it can sort of just slowly, you know, grow and grow based off of panic,
but it did create slowly build up after like, you know, getting food poisoning or getting the flu over like several occasions in my life, which is like common for people. But that kind of stuff can build up. And then all of a sudden, it's like your subconscious, little limbic system is now like, has a little more control over you, because you're a little traumatized about being sick like that. Yeah. Yeah, of course. And
I'm so glad that you mentioned right, the restricting food, that that's such a big thing, right, you're trying to have that control, like, I don't want to feel nauseous, I don't want to potentially vomit. So you try to do anything you can to make it so that that doesn't happen. Were there like other things that you started to notice yourself doing to try to control this.
Um, well, I, I started taking Zofran, which, which I had to fight to get just a little commentary on like how hard it is to like, be seen by a doctor in the state. I had to like, lie my way into getting So Fran. But I got it. And like they wouldn't prescribe it to me because I had panic disorder. They put it they prescribe it to me because I said I was having like nausea during like my cycles every month. Which is like true. But anyway, once I got it, I became like very dependent on it. And like, that kind of became an issue because you don't Zofran is a safe medication, but you don't want to take it if you don't actually, like need it. And in one, in one way, it actually really helped me. Like that's kind of like how I started making improvements and being able to eat again, because i i Hold I completely stopped eating because I was just so I was kind of in this panic cycle, I was always nauseous and I couldn't keep food down. So Zofran allowed it so I can start eating again. And that was like a very dangerous time in my life. I lost like 25 pounds and two to three months. So like that's where Mehta phobia can get can get really dangerous, where you're just so terrified of eating anything that you you stop. So taking Zofran kind of savings because it made it my nausea. Like it reduced my nausea enough that I could start eating again. But then I became like dependent on it. So I started taking it every day. Just eat even when I didn't need to. So yeah, that was another. I don't know, I guess that's another thing.
Yeah, I'm so glad that you shared that. And those who don't know, Ray's oh friend has an anti nausea medication. It's like often prescribed for women who are pregnant or people on their cycles where you experience nausea and obviously many other scenarios, but like you're saying you can develop such a dependence on it and start to really convince yourself like, I need this. I need to use it all the time. And of course, it sort of does help in this short term way. Like it helps. Okay, I actually feel like I can eat or I have the desire to eat or I feel less nauseous and but it totally creates the cycle right of i need this. I can't be without it. I have to have it. And that can be really scary, right?
Yeah, I also like when I started leaving the house again and I when I first started doing exposures, I had to take it just to be relief. Like the challenging part about exposures for me is it so much being out of the house, it's being in a car that causes panic attacks being in like, an environment, which is called, I think it's Mark Moxa phobia. And so if you're being in a car, people who are panic tend to have many different phobias. It's like it's a multifaceted, very complicated disorder that, in my opinion is largely misunderstood at like a clinical level. But anyway, like being in a car would make me nauseous because you're in this close in space. And that will make me have panic attacks. And if it took Zofran, if I could control the damages, that I can handle the rest of what having a panic attack entails, I can deal with having a racing heart, I can deal with having a look at a billion things constantly searching for threats, I can deal with the racing thoughts. But nausea, for me is like the most challenging part of dealing with a panic attack. And once I started taking that medication to deal with the nausea, that I could handle the panic a little bit better. And that's what allowed me to start doing exposures. The downside of that is being dependent on a medication that I don't need to take. You know,
yeah, I'm so glad that you talked about the driving anxiety part because I think it is that being stuck, you know, being trapped in you're in a car and you really feel like you don't have a whole lot of control. And what if you feel sick? What if you feel the nausea? What if you do vomit, and you're in a car, like, I know, just my brain struggling with the toilet anxiety? That was one of the hardest things for me, because I was like, I do not want to be in a car, especially with other people. I could usually get by with like, driving by myself, even though that was hard. But if you told me get in a car with other people, oh my gosh, I'd be like, no, because what if I feel sick? What if I have to go to the bathroom? And all that embarrassment? The shame that oh, my gosh, that was such a hard part of the journey.
Yeah, I'm 100%. So I'm curious
with you know, like, obviously, developing the awareness getting some support seeing okay, this is, this is really distressing. This is something that's causing a lot of, you know, issues and obviously something that I need to figure out how I can, you know, navigate this, what, what are some things that you started to do to like, tackle all of it? I know, it's not like tackling specifically that amount of phobia, because there it was all intertwined, but like, what did you start to do?
Well, this is where things get, like, really challenging to talk about, but I, man, I had to fight to get help i. And it's it is it's like embarrassing, for I just, I think it's embarrassing that it is so hard to get help where I live. And it's just I don't know, if it's because I live in the south. I don't know if it's the particular area I'm in. But like I got, it was it was just so I tried seeing a mental health professional, and it was either an issue of like, they're not taking patients or my insurance didn't cover it. But like, I really had to advocate for myself, and it took months to finally get help. So like, it takes a lot of courage to you know, even recognize that you're in a tough spot and try and make changes to get better and realize that you need help to talk about a very embarrassing condition like I can't leave my house, because I'm afraid of throwing up and then then you have to fight to get that help. And that help doesn't help you. So like I started seeing a psychiatrist who just like when I got psych, psychiatric services, I just started taking more drugs and I became dependent on drugs and and that became very, very bad. And that's still something that I'm struggling with. I'm trying to get off of them all the way. Like I take like a very, very tiny dose of propranolol and don't need to be on it anymore, but I have to microdose it because I can't handle being off of it. So having more drugs pushed on me didn't fix the problem. It just made it worse. Like my dose they increased my dose of Zofran and they put me on like antidepressants or whatever and medication is wonderful for some people who have panic for me it was an absolute nightmare. It just it made things so much worse. And I think it's because like being on it and an depressants, it takes like three weeks to get into your system. And during those three weeks it can make your panic where it's it can make you more nauseous and have more anxiety and I couldn't get through that threshold. And I said Are you having like panic attacks that traumatize me and then that, you know, then that was when I was really agoraphobic, I wasn't leaving my room at all. So it took realizing that medications not going to help me. And then I was doing cognitive behavioral therapy. But that wasn't super helpful either. Because every, like, whenever I was able to access care, it was all about getting the panic attacks to stop getting the nozzle to stop getting the meta phobia to stop. And so it was like, and none of it like worked, it was all about, you know, if you have panic, take a pill, get it to stop, if you have not to take a pill get to stop. You know, if you have it, then breathe and relax until it stops. And the reason why that doesn't work is because it's like, it's a different kind of avoidance, you know, like, like, it's your, I just start getting better, until I realized that I needed to just let myself feel that and feel the nausea and feel the panic. And if I vomit, then I vomit, whatever, it's okay. And that's when I started getting better. So that's I stopped taking the medication I weaned off it slowly. And I started practicing a different kind of relationship with my panic, you know, and I like that was the key was just realizing that instead of taking a pill to get it stopped, or doing all these breathing, exercises, to get it to stop, just let yourself feel it, like if I'm gonna have a panic attack, then just let it happen. But, and, and that's when I stopped cycling through panic attacks all the time. And when they really like reduced them to just 20 minutes. And that was done, just by allowing myself to feel it and not trying to avoid it, and not taking like a Zofran to avoid vomiting or like, you know, allowing myself like to eat foods that I was like, afraid of that I'm not allergic to, you know, that's when I really started to make progress and get better. The sad part of it is like, I kind of had to do it all by myself, I didn't really get help, like, there wasn't really a professional who helped me with this. So I don't want to sound like I don't know, I want to encourage people to get help 100% But in my case, I started getting better when I stopped seeing mental health professionals. But that's like, that's like a very regionalised issue that's specific to my situation. So I also started getting help, like, by listening to your podcasts and practicing some of the things that you were teaching. And the biggest thing for me was just allowing myself to feel, feel panic attacks and have them and feel the nausea and go out and do things anyway. And if it happens, that that happens, you know, ya
know, people listening are like, please tell me there something else. Because that does not sound like fun. But I think, you know, a big reason why we sort of get, you know, really consumed by anxiety and panic is because we're trying not to feel it. And it makes perfect sense, right? You feel something really uncomfortable. And you're like, Okay, what can I do to not feel this? That's like a normal reaction, right? And so you find all these ways to, to not feel but they're all very short term, like, you know, medications and the emergency type medications and restricting food and all these things and seemingly help in the moment, but then you find, oh, gosh, okay, now, I'm really dependent on them. And it's not actually taking away the anxiety that I'm experiencing. It's just giving me some of that short term relief. And so that's why it's so important, right? You have to actually look at the root, develop the awareness of like, okay, what is going on what's happening? And how am I responding, you know, to the anxiety in the moment, and really changing that response. It's, it's so tricky, especially with something like emetophobia, because you're so desperate for this thing to not happen. And the more you're trying to make it not happen, the more those feelings continue to pop up. Like it's very similar to panic, you know, the more you try to prevent yourself from panicking, the more you try to prevent yourself from feeling anxious or experiencing a symptom. There it is, like, anxiety is always there sort of as this protective mechanism. And unfortunately, it pops up a lot when there's no reason for it to be popping up. But, you know, this, trying not to feel as a huge, huge reason why a lot of people struggle and you have to start to really in slow, manageable ways, right? Allow yourself to actually feel without reaching for and doing things to try to get that short term. relief. But it's not easy, like you're saying
so hard. It. And that's one thing I'm going through right now, because like, I'm still struggling with agoraphobia, I'm learning how to leave the house again, and do things again. And it really has been like a step at a time. One of the things I've learned with doing exposures is that I have to, I have to do things that I really enjoy. If I do something that I don't enjoy, and I have like panic really bad the whole time, then it like makes my Gore phobia worse, and then exposures get harder. But I've been doing them like, things that I enjoy, they're close by, and then expanding that radius. So like, like two months ago, I wasn't able to go about like 10 minutes away from my house. But this weekend, I went half an hour away to a New Year's Eve party, which I haven't been able to do a New Year's Eve party in three years. And, and then like, last night, I went, I went half an hour away to like a light show with my family. And that was like, I haven't been able to do something like that with my family in three years either. So like, it's, it's like one tiny step at a time. And at the beginning of each exposure, that's like more challenging. Usually, I have panic for the first 15 to 20 minutes. But once I kind of tell my brain like it's okay, we're safe and allow myself to feel that panic attack, then, then it usually ends and I enjoy the rest of the time being out. So used to be, I used to be afraid of doing exposures, because that would be like, Oh, I'm gonna go and have panic the entire time. And it's just going to be a miserable experience, and I'm going to come home and never want to do it again. But through these slow exposures of expanding and doing things are more challenging every time slowly, incrementally. I've learned that like, it is enjoyable, and I can go out and enjoy life again, it's just going to be really uncomfortable for the first couple of minutes. And if I do have panic, just you know, allow myself to feel it, you know, that's been the key. It's just self to have that panic attack. And don't try and stop it, don't take a pill to stop it. Don't take us over into like, stop the nausea, or, you know, even like trying breathing exercises doesn't work for me, because the idea of the breathing is like I'm gonna breathe and till to get the panic to stop. And sometimes you just have to let yourself hyperventilate a little bit, you know?
Yeah, well, that's the tricky part with all this stuff, right is because you're, if you're using these things, the sort of some of them can be really helpful and supportive. But if you're using these techniques, and practices and all that to make the anxiety go away, and you're really banking on like, I'm going to do this, and it's going to fix everything, and I'm going to feel better. Ooh, it creates this really harmful relationship between you and these things, because then it starts to associate them with the anxiety. And so it's always helpful, right to recognize, okay, maybe some of these things aren't as helpful as they think. And how can I do it? You know, what is helpful? And just getting curious and developing that, you know, sense of trust within yourself of like, okay, breathing exercises aren't helpful. But let me try something else. See, you know, what is helpful for me? It's huge. I know, there's so much to emetophobia, right. And like you said, you're still working on some things, like you're still working on putting some foods back in your diet and really trying to, you know, allow yourself to feel, can we talk about that a little because I know this is really tough when you're struggling with emetophobia is actually allowing yourself to feel and pulling away from all these habits and behaviors that you've been doing for so long to try to keep yourself you know, quote, safe. Okay, not from not puking, right, from not feeling that these uncomfortable feelings.
Yeah, so I do have to say, I have been vegan my whole life. And I've continued with that, because I like to live a compassionate lifestyle. So there are some foods that I'm not going to add back in my diet at all. Because this is just the lifestyle that I live, which is challenging in North Carolina, the barbecue state like Right. But one of the things I've started doing again was like going out to eat at restaurants and people with emetophobia will be afraid to eat out because you don't know where the food is coming from any hear like news reports of like, you know, so and so restaurant chain, shut down for whatever, salmonella, Listeria whatever. So that's, and then you'll never want to go out to eat again. So like you restrict going on e and then that restricts like your social life. It's like you stop going out with people. And, and there's like, where I live out here, there's nothing to do out here, but go out to eat. So anyway, like, so that's something that I'm getting used to is like, going out somewhere, go to a restaurant and eat something and don't be afraid of it and enjoy yourself and have a good time. And that was like really challenging to get to get used to. Also with like grocery shopping was would be was challenging because I would just like not buy certain foods, because I'd be afraid that it would be contaminated like lettuce, lettuce is commonly contaminated. Because of how farming is done these days. A lot of times like your leafy greens, there's like a chance you hear on the news all the time of like listeria infections and lettuce. Because of, you know, farming close by to like, where animals are farmed, and then their feces like contaminates the produce. So then you just won't buy produce for a while or like, that kind of stuff sticks in your head. So then you just start like totally avoiding entire food groups, and then it becomes very challenging to get your proper nutrition. So a lot of that just like I to overcome that I you know, I just tried to be very mindful of what I was buying and where I was buying from, but instead of like, just totally avoiding it 100% I would like, you know, just buy it anyway and wash it really well. But like that's kind of how emetophobia can get really dangerous is where you're, you're restricting yourself from getting your the nutrition you need, because you're just so afraid that food is you start seeing all food as a poisonous thing, you know, because you don't know where it came from. I don't know, I think the one good thing might not have phobia did for me was it got me into gardening. So I've just started growing my own food because I didn't trust where it came from. And I got really good at it. Last year I I didn't go to the grocery store to buy produce at all because I grew all of it myself. I'm very proud of myself.
I love that hi guys started that too. And it's been one of the best like journeys they've ever gone on. I didn't think I'd ever be like a gardener, but it's so much fun. And like you are you're so proud of yourself, you're like, dang, I grill this and like now I have food and I don't have to go to the grocery store and buy all of this stuff that is like outrageously expensive.
Yeah, but also like, I don't I've also learned that it's okay to buy food from the grocery store, you can trust it, just wash it like so that's another like hurdle had to get over was to just start trusting food again. And, and actually a lot of that came from I did get sick with it wasn't food poisoning. I got sick with like a stomach virus. And something about that experience helped me with my emetophobia a lot like I after that I started trusting food better again, because I kind of learned the difference between like, what it feels like to be nauseous with panic, and then what it feels like to be nauseous because you're actually sick. And there are two different feelings one, like when you're nauseous with panic, I usually don't have stomach pain with it. So that helps me recognize like, this is just a panic attack. I don't need to cancel all my plans today, because I'm not sick, because that's what I would do, I would get paranoid panic attacks and get nauseous, and then cancel all my plans and not leave the house at all because I thought that I was like genuinely sick with something. And I did that a lot. And I would like and I'd also like that those were days where I wouldn't eat because I thought that I had like a sour virus or something. But there was nothing wrong with me. And this would go on for like weeks. And I would just not leave the house or seeing it anybody because I was totally convinced that I was severely sick. And I actually was able to go to the doctor and they would be like, well, there's nothing wrong with you. Because I thought I had like a stomach ulcer or whatever. So I wasn't able to eat anything. And then it turns out, it was just panic, when I actually got sick was like a stomach virus that taught me that like, Oh, it's just like a completely different feeling. It's like stomach pain and whatever. And so learning the difference between the two allowed me to be less afraid of it, I guess and recognizing like when it's nausea, that's just panic related. That's something I can handle. So that's also allowed me to like start going to the grocery store again and like, start trusting food again. And, you know,
I'm so glad that you said that though, because I think a lot of people rave have those moments where they're like, is this just anxiety or like am I actually sick and like Understand, you know, the feelings, you know, like, the anxious feeling so well. And if you're asking yourself this question, right, I always say, is this anxiety? Or am I actually sick? Chances are it's anxiety. Like, if you're playing that game of like, is it anxiety? Chances are it is that sounds a whole lot like anxiety, right? But being able to differentiate and see like, oh, yeah, this, this is different than anxious feelings like that. That's big.
Yeah. And recognizing, learning how to recognize panic attacks was a huge part of getting better, because they're very, your brain is very good at tricking you into thinking that something is terribly wrong when it isn't. You know? So panic attacks can really convince you that there's something wrong with you, when really, you're totally safe. And you're okay. Oh,
yeah, that's like what they do, right? Always convincing you that you're in danger that you need to do something about it. And that's the tricky part is then you find yourself constantly doing, and that doing creates even more anxious feelings. And that's, that's that loop, right? So I am curious, what, why did you join panic to peace? Like and what the heck did you get from it? Because it's like, it's so interesting to me. Like we were talking about people who join the program and struggling with something really specific, like emetophobia. Like, what? What, what about the program that you're like, I'm gonna give this a shot?
Well, because you really know, and understand panic disorder very well. And unfortunately, the professionals I've seen, I don't really think they understand it. Like I've been with a therapist before and having to explain to them what, what the amygdala was. So I was really attracted to your program, because these you, your podcast, like everybody on your podcast knows what panic is. And, and like, that was huge. And I have made so much progress, I've made more progress in the couple of weeks of taking panic to peace. And I did in the three years of getting professional help. Like, for three years of getting professional help, I didn't leave my house. But over the past couple weeks, I've looked at my house several times, and even like had a summit, like pretty much gone back to a normal life. I'm still working on exposures. But I think like, that was what attracted me the most, and it helped me the most is like being around people and listening to people who have panic disorder, and who, who understand it. And then the biggest thing that helped was all of the tips and tricks that I've learned from mental health professionals was like, how you know, how to avoid panic, do this breathing exercise to avoid panic, you know, and take these pills to avoid having panic attacks. Also, like I like in cognitive behavioral therapy, it can be helpful, that's all about like, connecting your past traumas to your who you are now, and that's very healing, and it's very important work. But for people with panic disorder, while we need to do that work, we also need help learning how to deal with panic attacks. So in all my years of like, being in cognitive behavioral therapy, I would be like, Oh, well, I know I'm having this panic attack. Because this trigger is from this trauma I had when I was eight years old. But that's not helping at all, like knowing where this is coming from is not helping me. I'm like, because I've not been taught or trained. Or learned how to deal with my panic, I've only been taught how to avoid it. So that has been the most helpful thing like avoidance behavior is, is so it's, it's such a big part of having panic disorder, but it's, it's such like a nasty cycle because like it, that's what, that's what gets you so stuck is avoiding, and then avoiding your life and avoiding and friends, and all of a sudden, you're not living your life at all. But you know, you're avoiding it, because you're so terrified of having panic. So that's what the class helped me with so much is recognizing that everything I'm doing is, is a part of this avoidance behavior that I have. And that the mauri Well, if you avoid like a panic and panic in the meantime, like, it might make you feel better, but you suffer so much more in the long run. Like I haven't been able to live my life and like three years. I only think like, I'm very proud. I attended an online graduate school and I got a master's degree. So like, that's huge. I'm very proud of myself for that. But other than that, like I haven't, I've lost all my friends and all my relationships and I've stopped living my life because of this avoidance behavior. And it was like during class that I saw started getting better and started being able to like, see, make relationships with people again and live my life again, because I'm finally learning how to handle panic attacks, and how to stop avoiding everything.
Yeah, we don't avoid and panic to peace. We don't avoid feelings, we don't avoid doing the things like, and that's the biggest thing, right? I think we hear so much about exposures and you have to face the things and yes, all of that's true. But the big piece and all of it is you have to stop, avoid trying to avoid feeling because you can't, it's really something that you can't do. And you have to understand like, how to actually feel and there are things that can be really helpful and helping you to do that. And in a healthy, feel good way and not like a pressurized, forceful, like, you just got to get out there and face the fear and like let yourself feel the horrible stuff. But I am just so happy to hear Scarlett, how helpful it's been but also how much you know, unfortunately, how much ownership you've had to take and accountability. And really doing a lot of this on your own. And I we have so much work to do in the mental health space is, especially in the United States. I know and many other places too. But it's it's just amazing to see somebody like you who is really sad, you know what I, I'm going to take ownership and I'm going to figure this out. And you've done such an amazing job. And I'm just really proud of you for all the work you've done and for coming on Being so vulnerable and talking about something that can be really tough to talk about. So I appreciate you so much. Thank you. Yeah. All right. So I will have more discussions on emetophobia I promise I know all of this is intertwined with anxiety, panic, so we will be having more discussions about this. But, Scarlett, I appreciate you so much. And thank you for coming on the podcast
and it's a great opportunity. I'm really happy to be here.
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