How to Deal With Chronic Pain and Anxiety With Dr. Anna Redmond
- Shannon Jackson
- Jun 15, 2024
- 3 min read
In this episode of A Healthy Push podcast, I chat with Dr. Anna Redmond, a chronic pain educator and trained pain psychologist. Anna specializes in working with patients suffering from long-standing pain and the physical impact of stress on their bodies. And she had her own personal journey with chronic pain.
We sat down for a conversation on the relationship between chronic pain and anxiety. We talked about things like:
Indicators of chronic pain
What actually causes chronic pain
Why it's not helpful to 'rate your pain'
What to do when you're in a flareup or you're anticipating one
Why trying everything to get relief often makes things worse
What Anna wishes she knew earlier in her own personal journey with chronic pain
I'm so looking forward to sharing our discussion with you! Be sure to check out the full episode to hear all the amazing insights Dr. Redmond had to share from her years of practice and experience in this field, as well as her own journey with chronic pain.
How to Deal With Chronic Pain and Anxiety With Dr. Anna Redmond
Chronic pain is different from acute pain. Acute pain typically results from an injury and lasts up to six months, often resolving as the body heals. However, pain that persists beyond six months, whether from an injury, stress, or an unknown cause, tends to involve the nervous system.
When pain continues for an extended period, the brain, whose job is to protect us, can become overprotective. It does this by producing pain signals even when the threat isn't as severe.
This has lots of similarities to anxiety and panic disorder! Anxiety shows up to protect you but unfortunately fires off a lot of false alarms. Changing that perspective can be helpful in recognizing that anxiety, like chronic pain, is trying to be helpful in some capacity.
Anna says: "I often see a significant overlap between chronic pain and anxiety in my work. Many people aren't sure what came first: was it anxiety that led to pain, or pain that led to anxiety? This relationship can vary, but understanding the connection can help in managing both conditions. Your pain is real, no matter how it started or what it feels like. The International Association for the Study of Pain recognizes that various situations can cause chronic pain. Regardless of the cause, when pain goes on for six months or longer, the nervous system's involvement becomes significant."
She shares that the empowering part is that you can manage and recalibrate your nervous system to reduce its overprotective response. Techniques like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), mindfulness, gradual exposure therapy, physical therapy, and biofeedback can help calm the nervous system and reduce chronic pain.
Understanding that chronic pain is often due to an overactive nervous system helps in managing it effectively. With the right approaches, you can help your brain dial down its sensitivity and live more comfortably.
Make sure to listen to the full episode for all of the helpful insights, tips, and tools Anna shares! And for more information on this topic, and for some helpful resources, you can connect with Dr. Anna on her website or Instagram linked below!
Feeling like you've tried everything but you're still struggling with lots of anxious thoughts, symptoms, panic attacks, and fears? Take my FREE 60-minute masterclass today and learn 5 shifts that will actually help you to overcome anxiety, panic disorder, and agoraphobia. And I promise, you won't hear any of the usual stuff from me - like doing breathing exercises, grounding practices, cutting out caffeine, and doing more exposures. Let's get you the peace and freedom you deserve without it being so hard!
Check out my masterclasses here and start experiencing lots more peace, joy, & freedom!
TRANSCRIPT
00:00.14
ahealthypush
Okay, I'm really excited for today's conversation I have Dr Anna Redmond here with me and she's a chronic pain specialist for women and this is a conversation that I've wanted to have for quite some time I know many people who struggle with anxiety disorders are also struggling with. Chronic pain. So Anna welcome to a healthy push podcast. Yeah, this is gonna be so good. So let's just start like tell us a little bit about you.
00:22.96
Anna Redmond
Thank you so much for having me I'm happy to be here.
00:33.59
Anna Redmond
Okay, um, well I'm a clinical psychologist I'm a licensed clinical psychologist. Um I have a specialty in chronic pain and I'm board certified in biofeedback and then I guess I have the unique experience of having had chronic pain myself. Um, at the same time that I was working in a hospital system as part of a chronic pain Team. So that was a really interesting experience. Um, and I just have a longstanding interest in that mindbody connection I've always wanted to understand why we feel the things that we. Feel why physical sensations show up how our thoughts are involved how our behaviors link to all of that. So That's always been just a longstanding interest of mine.
01:18.27
ahealthypush
Yeah, oh my goodness I am so excited to like ask you so many questions I feel like I worked in the the health care fields for over sixteen years um I think seventeen years and I remember a couple of I was always a practice manager and.
01:21.62
Anna Redmond
Okay, I'll do my best.
01:35.53
ahealthypush
I Remember seeing that the practice managers of the pains specialty practices and I just would think oh my goodness it seems so overwhelming and stressful and like just to seeing the things that you share on your page though I think this is going to be a really helpful. Good Conversation. So. Obviously no one recognize right? Struggling with anxiety is really hard but then adding chronic pain on top of it I Can only imagine would be incredibly debilitating and I think so many people often get the messaging of like.
02:00.80
Anna Redmond
Um, for.
02:12.71
ahealthypush
You just have to learn to live with it. These are sort of just ways that you can manage it and I think it's very similar to anxiety disorders and unfortunately I think a lot of people have felt really dismissed and and judged and not being met with that empathy and. You know, maybe even being told like it's just all in your head like it's just your you know you're making it up So This There's so much to this conversation but I want to do our best to like talk about all the things. Um, So yeah, we're just going to have a compassionate supportive helpful conversation. And I know you're the best person for this. So Let's just start like what are some indicators that somebody might be struggling with chronic pain and what that might look like.
02:59.91
Anna Redmond
Um, so that's a really good question and you know chronic pain is different than acute pain. So acute pain would be something that shows up often. This is from an injury and it lasts typically for up to six months and usually resolves by then most tissues in our body heal. Between three and six months anything that goes beyond that whether it started from an injury whether there's no identifiable cause that anyone can see on imaging. Maybe it started during a stressful period of time. Maybe it seemingly came out of nowhere all of those pains are real. Um, that's. Biggest part of my pain philosophy is that I believe your pain is real no matter how you describe it but the international association for the study of pain also recognizes that any of these situations can cause pain but whatever causes it when it goes on for six months or longer the nervous system really starts to get involved and what I mean by that is that. Our brain whose job. It is to protect us can become over protecttive and the way it protects us often is with pain and so it's ah it's an and and I think for me as a professional working with all.
03:59.84
ahealthypush
Be here.
04:11.29
Anna Redmond
Different people with all different diagnoses that came from all different sources I think this thing that brings it together for me and everyone and that simplifies it is that if it's been going on for a while your nervous system is probably involved your brain is it's like ah. And alarm that's become too sensitive and your brain is producing pain to protect you when because it thinks there's a threat when in fact, there might not be as bad of a threat there right? and we have to basically learn to dial it down and so this is not your fault. This is the brain's job.
04:37.60
ahealthypush
Yeah.
04:44.68
Anna Redmond
It just is trying to become better at protecting you and there are and so I think this is the empowering part of this is that we can turn that down or even recalibrate the nervous system to not be so overprotective Hyper vigilant sensitive.
05:01.61
ahealthypush
Gosh when you're saying this I'm just thinking of this sounds just like anxiety like shows up to protect you like unfortunately is firing off a lot of really false alarms. But I think changing that perspective definitely can be helpful in recognizing you know it is. It is trying to be helpful to some capacity when in the work that you do I'm curious. Where do you see that overlap because I feel like a lot of people will say I sort of don't know what came first like was it anxiety was it the pain like. Was it pain or and then anxiety like so can you talk about that a little bit.
05:40.48
Anna Redmond
Yeah, and I do want to just respond by saying another thing they have in common is that anxiety can get paired with things or ah triggers that wouldn't necessarily cause anxiety in the first place pain can do that too. Our brain can pair pain or associate pain.
05:44.95
ahealthypush
Fifth.
05:56.91
Anna Redmond
But different activities and they get better at creating it even maybe thinking about doing this thing right? So it's really similar anxiety in that way. Um, and now I've already forgotten your next question. Oh the overlap right? Um, so I think I was listening to one of your other. Um.
05:59.83
ahealthypush
Bye. Yeah.
06:07.00
ahealthypush
Yeah, yeah.
06:16.53
Anna Redmond
Guests talking about I think he was talking about panic attacks and he talked about adrenaline with no place to go. Um and when we think about our daily lives and stress and how it's supposed to work if if we are a zebra and there is a lion and it's chasing us our stress response gets turned on.
06:19.40
ahealthypush
Yes.
06:35.83
Anna Redmond
We run away. We seek safety once we seek safety stress response turns often our body kind of goes back to baseline that's how it's supposed to work unfortunately modern day stressors don't really work like that if 1 is done the next one's already waiting for us. You know like tax seasons. Over now but now I have to work extra hard this week because I'm going to the zoo with my kid on Thursday and then I have a mammogram next week and what's that going to say so there's always a stressor coming up and that stress response or cycle never gets a chance to turn off and so it just keeps going and so I think. You know for chronic pain one of the ways that it overlaps with anxiety is just that that stress response never gets a chance to turn off. So so chronic pain is a stressor and then anxiety would be something that kind of gets turned on sometimes by pain right? So there's a lot of fear that comes with pain.
07:20.31
ahealthypush
E.
07:30.70
Anna Redmond
If I Do this thing am I going to have pain. Will it last Forever. There's nothing I can do about this? Um, what if I'm in a wheelchair or I can't provide for my family So There's a lot of fearful thoughts or anxiety producing thoughts that can come up with pain and kind of keep that stress response going that adrenaline going even though. There's no, you know sometimes no reason for it and I yeah and I also just think that like you were bringing up. Is it depression and anxiety or is it the pain.
07:50.93
ahealthypush
Yeah, that makes that makes sense.
08:01.73
Anna Redmond
You know sometimes I would say if people had depression anxiety prior to pain. It's probably a factor that's dialing it up even more for them and anxiety and depression coming with pain is also a totally reasonable experience to have because we are not meant to be in pain endlessly as humans.
08:06.76
ahealthypush
A.
08:15.45
ahealthypush
Yeah, yeah for sure. So I you know what I know that this is a big question but it's something that you talk a lot about and I think it would be helpful if we can just like touch on it even a little bit.
08:21.37
Anna Redmond
Um.
08:34.23
ahealthypush
How does pain really work like pain as a mechanism like how does it actually work.
08:41.82
Anna Redmond
So to really simplify it. Um, we can think of you know if I step on a nail right I have we have all these receptors in our body. They are the eyes of the brain whose Job. It is to protect us. We step on a nail. Um, the receptor send a message up through our spinal cord to our brain our brain. Interprets that information and any other information it might have like you know memories or feelings or thoughts or literally anything else and it does its best. It makes a best guess basically on whether or not it needs to protect us. It determines that. Sends a message back down and so that's our experience ah of pain. So for the most part our brain our pain is almost 100% constructed by our brain and our brain's job is to protect us. So It's it's producing pain in order to.
09:23.50
ahealthypush
Be.
09:30.70
Anna Redmond
Um, make sure we go see the doctor or stop us from doing something and that's it's just ah, it's based on this evolutionary need to survive and our brain is always looking to go toward rewards or away from threats and it keeps us away from threats often by producing pain to protect us.
09:48.97
ahealthypush
Yeah, and I think that can be so tricky right? because you like you said your brain throws you memories and sort of these signals and but then you can get really caught up right in and a ah harmful cycle Of. Um, my gosh you know I remember that when I do this I feel the pain or I remember when I do that like and you can get very quickly to this place of well I'm not going to do a lot of things anymore to hopefully prevent that pain from occurring.
10:19.10
Anna Redmond
Yeah, So every time we associate pain with a situation or an activity or a certain trigger. Um, you know that can ingrain those pathways in our brain it can ingrain them deeper and deeper. And then people can find themselves in this ah fear Avoidance Cycle So similar to anxiety we avoid something that causes us pain the immediate reward for that is that you know in that moment we probably didn't have as much pain as maybe we were going to and.
10:48.56
ahealthypush
Yes.
10:51.79
Anna Redmond
In the future We view that activity as you know something that's going to cause even more pain or be more painful or more fearful and then we continue to avoid it and the problem when we avoid with chronic pain and we stop Moving. We avoid activities. We're isolated or Depressed. We're even more fearful fearful of those activities. Um. And we're becoming more deconditioned so that even small activities hurt to do and it's just really a terrible cycle of distress avoidance fear and pain and it can really and the whole time. Our nervous system is becoming even more sensitive.
11:12.74
ahealthypush
This.
11:26.93
ahealthypush
Yeah, for sure I mean gosh you said that? So well I know something that a lot of people struggle with is when they're not experiencing the pain or when they're not in a flare up. They're like anticipating one and this is a.
11:31.29
Anna Redmond
That.
11:43.59
Anna Redmond
Um.
11:44.31
ahealthypush
Big area right? where a lot of people get stuck when they're struggling with anxiety is it's not necessarily that you're anxious right now but you're anticipating always am I going to feel anxious am I going to feel the pain. How bad? is it going to be could it get as bad as it did that time and like you said you know that all that can lead to. And the avoidance and like all these behaviors right? that are sort of just making it even more present and harder to undo those those pathways. So Can you talk about how changing your perception of threat had that can be helpful.
12:11.21
Anna Redmond
Yeah.
12:21.80
Anna Redmond
Yeah, um, so I think before I do that 1 thing that would be helpful to say here is that I work often with 2 types of women. Ah or I guess I would say there are kind of 2 types of approaches to activity that that I see in women that I work with and. So one is that avoidant sort of fearful person who's really isolating and not doing anything and they're stuck in that cycle. We just talked about and they're becoming more distressed their nervous system more sensitive. Their pain is worse and their life is becoming so much smaller because they're not doing anything but then the other.
12:52.69
ahealthypush
A.
12:57.74
Anna Redmond
Ah, type of women that I talked to a lot are these women who push through. So Maybe they do have a good day they like hit the pain lottery. They've got they they feel good. They've got all these things on their to do list that they have to get done that they've fallen behind on and then they push through and it's a cycle of Overactivity. It's a wind up of your nervous system. It's increased psychological and physical load that your nervous system just isn't used to and then they flare up their pain and then they crash and then they're fearful and often those women are driven by a different kind of anxiety.
13:30.68
ahealthypush
Yeah.
13:32.66
Anna Redmond
Often in Perfectionism people pleasing sort of they're driven by that inner kind of self criticism or feeling like they're you know like a lack of self worth right. And not wanting to disappoint people or not wanting to show that they're not capable anymore right? and so they're driven by sort of a different process and so I think Threat is such a big Umbrella So The brain if we're thinking about this from the brain's perspective. There's safety.
13:49.15
ahealthypush
The heat.
14:05.21
Anna Redmond
And there's threat and if we think about the um emotions behaviors thoughts. They're either going to fall under one of these umbrellas the safety or the threat umbrella. So if it's inner self criticism or you're driven by a need to please people that's pressure right? That's going to fall under the threat umbrella. If you're feeling isolated and depressed and fearful and anxious and avoidant. That's all going to fall under the threat umbrella and so when our brain determines that there's more threat credible evidence of threat than there is credible evidence of safety. It will produce pain to protect us so we really have to change that ratio right? We have to increase credible evidence of safety and that is so hard, especially the women that I often work with are just these high achieving. They're used to being you know, high performers high achieving. They're used to. Getting it done being productive and pain stops them in their tracks and this is just really hard. It's a really hard cycle to kind of DIy yourself
15:07.72
ahealthypush
Yeah I I remember growing up my mom experienced a lot of chronic pain and this is how I sort of saw her coping with it was to like you know, just continue doing all the things and sort of. Going at it and I could see the effects that it had and yeah, but I think yeah, you either not that you can't be somewhere in the middle sometimes they think but I think you're right, right? It it can be scary and so you can either avoid or you're just like Nope I'm just going to keep doing it all and then. Gets to a point where you can no longer do that I think you know something that I saw on your page which is really interesting because it brought me back to when I worked in the medical fields and I would always see all these signs um to rate your pain.
16:00.11
Anna Redmond
Out.
16:02.11
ahealthypush
And I always saw an every dang questionnaire rate your pain and when I saw your post on that I was like whoa like that's so good. So can you explain why you think it might not be so helpful for people to rate their pain.
16:20.76
Anna Redmond
Yeah I guess you saw that I have a lot of opinions on this scale I mean I don't even know where to start with that. It's I mean so that was developed you know, ah pain became the fifth vital sign and I don't know if any 1 listening has seen.
16:22.30
ahealthypush
Yeah, yeah, and I love it though I Love love your opinions.
16:36.64
ahealthypush
10
16:36.71
Anna Redmond
The documentary dope sick I think is what it was called but it pain became the fifth vital sign that people were assessing in their treatment appointments so they would ask this 0 to 10 scale and depending on the number it would determine their dosage of opioids so they would get. But you know we're sort of moving past that but people still ask this question and the problem with this question is that pain isn't just a biological physical thing that question leads out such a huge part of what creates and maintains pain if pain is um, you know and the most updated way to view pain is. That it's biopsychsocial that it's created or an overlaps in the middle of the 3 bubbles of biological psychological and social factors and so if we're only asking about biological like how much do you feel your pain or're missing the other 2 thirds of the picture. Um.
17:21.55
ahealthypush
Um, if.
17:30.94
Anna Redmond
But also like what are we even gaining from that question I would rather someone you know like and because it's so subjective. So if they say a 10 does then what you know is so subject or if they say it to like so what it does it mean that.
17:34.28
ahealthypush
Right.
17:41.30
ahealthypush
At right.
17:48.67
Anna Redmond
Like maybe they're having a good day and it doesn't mean that pain isn't making them feel super isolated and keeping them from doing all the things that they love but you don't know that because you didn't ask them I would rather have people ask questions like and I think you get more bang for your buck if you ask like how high is your threat level today.
17:56.17
ahealthypush
Right.
18:04.98
ahealthypush
Er.
18:07.79
Anna Redmond
You need a 0 to 10 or how high is your distress today but better like what is keeping your threat level high. Let's talk about the biological psychological social things that are you know in social meaning like environmental and context social factors. What's keeping your threat level high right now.
18:13.90
ahealthypush
Yes.
18:27.20
Anna Redmond
You know and how can we change that ratio. But I think it's way too simple I think it's outdated. Um I could see it being helpful as part of a larger conversation. Perhaps but like if someone comes in and said my pain's a 9 out of 10 and then they leave like if you if you.
18:27.41
ahealthypush
Yeah.
18:45.20
Anna Redmond
Answer that question you're thinking. Well if I tell them it's a 9 surely. They're going to give me something to make it better. You leave and no one made you even feel understood or heard or listened to or validated then what's the point.
18:48.81
ahealthypush
Right.
18:58.63
ahealthypush
Right? right? How can you actually give that person the help that they're needing if they don't even understand like yeah it can be a 9 at ah out of 10 but like you said What's actually generating that why is your threat response so high like understanding. Those layers really can help you then actually be able to help the person I just I found that incredibly interesting I think you know something that a lot of people do when they're struggling with pain and anxiety and rightfully so I did it myself I swear everyone I'm sure you did this too.
19:15.61
Anna Redmond
Um, yeah.
19:31.97
ahealthypush
You go down the rabbit hole of just trying to get relief. You're like I will try anything and everything like the procedures the medication, the holistic whatever it is like somebody please take this away. Um, but why I can probably.
19:33.58
Anna Redmond
Have.
19:46.47
Anna Redmond
Um.
19:50.67
ahealthypush
And know what you're going to say but why is this not a good idea to just try any and all the things.
19:54.58
Anna Redmond
Well, you know I think it makes sense in the culture of how we treat pain like the western culture that this is where we go and look I'm a pain psychologist I was working on a pain management team when I had pain I was literally part of my job was. Trying to expand the way they looked at pain from being you know, very physical and biological to expanding that to include other factors and yet so I should know better right? and yet when I went but pain you know the reasonable approach I had ah I think I had it for like seven months or something before I went and talked to my doctor and.
20:23.70
ahealthypush
Yes.
20:33.91
Anna Redmond
I was like hey I have this neck pain that won't go away and she did x-rays in an mri and then she showed me the picture and then she told me like that I had a bulging disc and she wasn't sure if that's what was causing my pain or maybe it was weak muscles or faulty movements or. You know like whiplash from the snowboarding thing or my posture at work like it could be any of these things and she didn't know and so she told me to do physical therapy where they gave me totally cookie cutter exercises and never asked me about anything going on in my life or how I was approaching. Things or feeling about things. Um I did dry needling I did um you know and I was a good patient. You know like I was an overachiever so I was overeving ah overachieeving treating my own pain and I did you know I was trying to go to Bikram Yoga 3 Times a week
21:19.98
ahealthypush
Be yes.
21:30.29
Anna Redmond
And do all of these things but I was just pushing through and I'm thinking about and this I didn't get injections or anything but I'm thinking about how the doctor I worked with when he would give injections he would ask them about their pain before rate 0 to 10 and then after rate 0 to 10
21:45.75
ahealthypush
Yeah.
21:50.80
Anna Redmond
And so he's just looking for a number so that he knows that what he did that moment worked and what I think is actually more and and through my experiences with the medical system. There was a lot of fear inducing language like I remember I'm going all over the place I will like bring this all together I remember that. My doctor saying that if I couldn't figure it out with some of these more conservative treatments I might need to go see a surgeon and so that was crazy because you know if you know fast forward 5 years I learned that bulging disc is a super common thing to see on imaging not everyone whose's imaging shows a bulging disc even has pain.
22:14.89
ahealthypush
Yeah.
22:27.63
Anna Redmond
And most bulging discs heal within three months and but the idea of like a surgeon on my neck was so fearful. Um, and with the injection rating from 0 to 10. It's just kind of like one I wish she had told me not to fear. So yeah, maybe you hurt your next snowboarding. We don't know. But the nervous system can become more protective and more sensitive the la you you have pain gets better at protecting you. We can totally dial this down. Let's talk through the factors that can increase this and decrease this or the doctor that's doing the injections. It's like okay today I got your pain down from us. 8 to a 4 but here's what you need to do we need to accept what your baseline is now and I'm going to give you some ideas of how to pace getting back to activity while you're feeling good I'm giving you some safety here like a feel good safety but now let's make it last right and I just think there's just.
23:20.70
ahealthypush
Yeah.
23:24.74
Anna Redmond
There's a lot of fear. There's a lot of um, simplifying it to just sort of biological. There's a lot being left out and I I think patient. That's why there's so much pain there is literally a global issue 25% of people have pain and it keeps getting worse.
23:40.69
ahealthypush
Wow I Know no, it's helpful that all of what you shared is incredibly helpful I think it is and it can make you like you said you were like a great patient like I'll do it all I'll.
23:42.85
Anna Redmond
Okay, spread out of rant I guess.
23:55.10
Anna Redmond
So.
23:57.56
ahealthypush
Like take it all in and I will do my best. But if you're not actually getting all the information and understanding and knowing knowing that there is more that's going on than yeah, how are you supposed to actually help yourself to get better.. It's not not.. It's not and it's not you. That's causing it to not for you to not get better like.. There are just things that you don't know and understand and you don't have certain tools. So Yeah I'm curious I know if you ah of course had this journey with pain yourself and now going like learning everything you have understanding everything that you do like if you could go back to when it all started.
24:17.78
Anna Redmond
Right.
24:37.24
ahealthypush
And you were really struggling like what do you wish you had known back then that you feel like would have just changed so much for you.
24:45.34
Anna Redmond
Yeah, you know what's funny is I think to some degree I did know it but pain was taking up so much space in my brain and I think the people that I needed to remind me of that were the first line people.
24:49.67
ahealthypush
Yeah.
24:59.89
ahealthypush
And.
25:02.76
Anna Redmond
Pain like my primary doctor or the pain specialist I saw or the physical therapist because even though I kind of knew it it. You know I was still very driven to find the cure or the fix or the thing that's just going to make it go away. Um, and I think.
25:10.95
ahealthypush
A.
25:21.89
Anna Redmond
Where I sort of had a breakthrough I have a really integrated pain background. So in most of my physicians I worked in a very integrated fashion with other professionals who were very generous I learned so much from them. Um, but it was this really interesting parallel process where at the same time I was having my pain. I was starting a new role and I was I became the clinical director of a pain rehabilitation program and I built this program alongside of physical therapists and occupational therapist. So We created the content together and eventually we actually taught it Together. We were at a Va so we had some flexibility. In terms of how we delivered treatment and we taught it together and I think the way that this particular physical therapist explained the neuroscience of pain just the way it's created in our bodies and that our brain uses this information to create it and there are things that increase the threat And. Threats high. It's going to, um you know, create pain more I think that was kind of the piece that one I I needed someone to share with me in like a really easily digestible way. Even though again I kind of knew this but I needed this other person to kind of share this with me. And so not only did that empower me to realize that okay like whether I had fibromyalgia or a bulging disc or you know all these other diagnoses that are really common to some degree I can reduce the threat and change how much pain my brain.
26:57.77
Anna Redmond
Is producing and people just think this sounds so ridiculous and like I totally get it. But at the same time that he's kind of teaching me this and I'm learning how to teach it to patients I'm also benefiting from it myself and so that meant that I'm watching our patients go through this program.
26:59.89
ahealthypush
Yeah.
27:15.18
Anna Redmond
And they are using these small moments everyday moments of their lives to basically retrain their brain and start you know making their lives bigger than their pain. They're kind of healing in these everyday moments and I was too at the exact same time. Um, and so I think.
27:33.38
Anna Redmond
There is information that is missing in these conventional treatment appointments that doesn't take long I like literally I could teach this to someone in 10 minutes it doesn't take long to teach you could do it in 5 I bet I talk as you can see for a long time I digress. But.
27:44.33
ahealthypush
A.
27:49.88
Anna Redmond
You could teach it in 5 minutes the amount of information that could really dial down the stress for someone and I think that's kind of my mission is just I there are not a lot of pain psychologists out there I don't think it's a job that a lot of people want necessarily. It seems really overwhelming even though like.
28:02.68
ahealthypush
Me.
28:08.34
Anna Redmond
You know to me at this point it feels very simple what we need to deliver to people So that means there's not a lot of access to this information. There's some physical therapist talking about this stuff. There's some occupational therapists talking about this stuff some physicians but it's just not enough and so I think my mission is to try to just make this.
28:10.77
ahealthypush
Yeah.
28:27.44
Anna Redmond
Kind of critical piece really accessible for women because I don't think that they're getting it anywhere else.
28:33.73
ahealthypush
Yeah, Absolutely I Love everything that you said it just like honestly brings me back because I you know would be on these meetings and people would say you know how challenging because you have such a high rate of difficult patients and I would just sit there and think you know. Relating it to my experience with anxiety and I'm like they're not difficult patients. They're patients who are actually having experience that you're not validating and you're just giving them these quote you know, quick fixes and sending them on their way.
29:01.24
Anna Redmond
Are.
29:09.31
ahealthypush
And not really giving them the information or the help that they need. They're not trying right to be difficult and I think that comes out you know it can come out in anger. It can come out in frustration and it's like it's all valid like it makes so much sense right? Having an experience that you feel like.
29:22.46
Anna Redmond
Yeah.
29:28.29
ahealthypush
You're not really getting the help you need for. So yeah, something I was thinking too was you know we feel like sometimes the pain or the anxiety like it's coming out of the middle of nowhere and I think you just giving that simple explanation of pain.
29:40.34
Anna Redmond
Who.
29:47.60
ahealthypush
It kind of helps you to stop looking so much and searching for the why because they think we get so caught up in that like why is this happening. Why am I experiencing the pain and you do you really feel like if I can land on the why it's going to fix everything and it's like not.
30:02.97
Anna Redmond
Um, and.
30:05.73
ahealthypush
Not so much true I Wish that were true, but it's not like do this one thing and then you're going to be good. Um I I know you talk a little bit about um, adaptive thinking and I am always a fan of like what's within our control like what can we actually do so.
30:06.41
Anna Redmond
F.
30:25.67
ahealthypush
Shifting to this type of thinking. Can you just give an example of like what that can look like and how it can be helpful.
30:30.93
Anna Redmond
Yeah I think um, a myth a myth is that the right word of pain psychologists is that we just focus only on mindset and positive thinking and and that's not um what I'm going to suggest here but when we're we're looking at just our thoughts.
30:40.97
ahealthypush
Yeah.
30:49.99
Anna Redmond
Our cognitions around pain Again. It's either going to fall in that threat category or safety you know and it can fall somewhere in the middle right? and we can always move towards safety over time. But I think um like it doesn't so we're not trying to. Have toxic positivity here. We're not trying to take a negative pain thought and turn it into a positive one Necessarily. We're just trying to make it less threatening even more neutral or even just more rational or reality based so a really common thought with chronic pain is you know.
31:16.38
ahealthypush
Keith.
31:28.51
Anna Redmond
So I tried to go out and rake the leaves today I can't do anything without pain. There's nothing I can do you know I like I couldn't even rake leaves today. This is so ridiculous you know or some version right? and I think.
31:37.85
ahealthypush
Yes.
31:43.12
Anna Redmond
That is a totally reasonable response to that experience I just want to validate that of course and our brain tends to sort of lend itself toward the negative because again, it's always trying to protect us. But I think it's okay to acknowledge the and here like 2 things can be true at the same time raking leaves was really challenging for me. Today and I know that I'm taking a new information I'm learning how to pace myself I'm going to take this as ah as feedback and not failure and approach it differently next time right? And again, you know it's I think sometimes without.
32:14.33
ahealthypush
Yeah.
32:22.56
Anna Redmond
Positive experiences or the data like I so I teach in my program I actually teach this toward the end because I think it's helpful when I teach people the what to do the coping skills that can actually give you some quick wins.
32:31.85
ahealthypush
Ah.
32:40.20
Anna Redmond
And positive results so that you have the data to support this type of thinking like I know that I can approach I can this is just giving me feedback I'm going to use this feedback to figure out my pacing plan because I'm helping people get in the nitty grit of gritty of their day. How are we going to design your day So you're pacing this differently and in a way you can build from it without flare ups right? And so then this gives them more and more ammunition to challenge these negative thoughts that come up that come up very naturally and they're almost like a reflex. They're hard to stop and.
33:11.44
ahealthypush
Yeah, because we're all human right? That's like swear our brains default.
33:15.52
Anna Redmond
Yeah, yeah, we all have an internal you know and I think it's trying to shift it from like this internal negative Monologue to sort of a healthy dialogue between you and sort of this more rational version of you That's kind of looking down as an observer. Right? And just doesn't have the same kind of thought stream and experiences right? We're just trying to do this a little bit.
33:37.95
ahealthypush
yeah yeah I mean one of the the types of reels that I do is like these me averse my brain reels and that's a lot of what's going on in those is me trying to give that you know adaptive thinking because it. It can be really helpful to just allow yourself to see things more objectively and to not be so harsh and and Judgy and negative and okay, let's let's put it at a distance a little bit. Um, yeah I think that's so helpful I I'm just really impressed I mean.
34:04.23
Anna Redmond
Yeah.
34:14.99
ahealthypush
I think that you're doing amazing work. It's such needed work and is so incredibly helpful. So if people want to find you connect with you learn from you Anna where can people find you.
34:29.58
Anna Redmond
I'm all over the place I'm very active on Instagram um I also have a free Facebook group where I do weekly live trainings. It's all free. There's free guides in there things to get you started um and then I have a.
34:37.50
ahealthypush
Oh well.
34:45.65
Anna Redmond
Have a coaching program as well. That again, we're just really getting into the nitty-g gritty of your story. The language that's been taught to you the critical education. Um, the mindbody techniques that are super important and then as well as the nitty-gritty of your today. We are. Showing you how to redesign your day to reflect what you really want and then kind of how to build that to make your life bigger than your pain without all those flare ups that are disrupting it all the time. Um, so people can find me on. Facebook Instagram um, but I love getting Dms from people if you're just curious to learn more You're welcome to send me a message.
35:23.44
ahealthypush
I Love thought Yes, definitely go check her out. She shares really helpful stuff and I just appreciate you coming on and and sharing your knowledge and wisdom. It's super been super helpful. Yeah, good Sorry I'll talk to you soon I'm sure.
35:33.92
Anna Redmond
Um, this was a fun conversation. You asked, really good questions. Thank you. Okay, sounds good.
