IFS Therapy - What It is and How It Works With Emily
- Shannon Jackson
- Dec 10, 2023
- 3 min read
You might’ve heard of Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy before… but do you know what it actually is? If not, you’re in the right place! I had so many questions about IFS, which is why I reached out to Emily. Emily Powell is a pre-licensed mental health therapist who loves the IFS approach, and she joins me to talk about all things IFS therapy.
Emily primarily works with individuals who have attachment wounds from early childhood, so she has lots of wisdom to share on today’s topic. I’ll highlight the main points of our conversation in this post, but make sure to listen to the full episode for all of the details! Let’s get started.
What Is IFS?
You might be wondering… what the heck is IFS? And don’t worry, I had the same thought at first! Emily explained that IFS is an acronym for Internal Family Systems and that it’s a relational style of therapy. In Emily’s words, “It's [IFS] less focused on the solutions and more on building our relationship with ourselves so that we can expand our relationship with others."
IFS is all about recognizing that humans aren’t defined by one thing like anxiety, panic disorder, or agoraphobia. It prioritizes the fact that we’re complex and that there’s far more to us than anxiety! Emily shared that her favorite part of IFS is that it’s not pathologizing. Instead, it focuses on the fact that everything we do is to protect ourselves. I loved that Emily mentioned this because so many of us who struggle with anxiety and panic are simply trying to protect ourselves from extremely uncomfortable emotions.
What Is IFS Therapy Used For?
Emily shared that the agenda with IFS is never to completely get rid of anxiety. In fact, there’s actually no agenda at all. She shared that often when therapists have an agenda, the parts, or inner child, do not respond in a helpful way. Instead, the focus is on learning about our inner child with more curiosity and openness. IFS is most commonly used to treat anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and depression.
Emily said that IFS is commonly used alongside other types of therapy. One of those is EMDR. She shared that oftentimes, clients will experience a block during EMDR therapy, or they aren’t able to get to the place they need to be in order to heal their trauma. Because of this, lots of EMDR therapists are not getting trained in IFS to help their clients move past these blocks.
What Is The Goal of IFS Therapy?
When I asked Emily about the goal of IFS therapy, she said that it largely has to do with getting to know ourselves and the different parts of us that make us unique. And when we form a deep understanding of who we actually are, we can rebuild the parts of ourselves that might be struggling.
So many of us struggle to know who we actually are, or what we actually need in order to begin healing. The beautiful part of IFS therapy us that it helps us to know ourselves better, and recognize what we need to do in order to heal!
Emily had so much more insight to share in the full podcast episode, so don’t forget to give it a listen!
Connect With Emily!
All the things: https://linktr.ee/emilypowellcounselingservices
TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to a healthy push Podcast. I'm Shannon Jackson, former anxiety sufferer turned adventure mom and anxiety recovery coach. I struggled with anxiety, panic disorder and agoraphobia for 15 years. And now I help people to push past the stuff that I used to struggle with. Each week, I'll be sharing real and honest conversations along with actionable and practical steps that you can take to help you push past your anxious thoughts, the symptoms, panic and fears. Welcome. You're right, we're meant to be. Okay, today on the podcast, I am so excited to have Emily with me. And Emily is going to talk about ifs, which is internal family systems. And I feel like this is a type of therapy that we've been hearing so much about. But it's just like, What is this and used and how is it helpful and all the data so we're gonna dive into all of it. But Emily, I just want to first welcome you. Welcome to healthy fresh podcast. Thank you. I'm
so excited. And I'm so excited to talk about all things ifs, it's seriously my new favorite approach to therapy.
I love it. So let's just start tell us a little bit about you. Who are you? What do you do?
Sure. So my name is Emily. I live in Philly. And I am a pre licensed mental health therapist. So still working towards my licensure, which is a never ending process. And I work mostly with older teens and young adults. A lot of people with attachment wounds from early childhood, which end up manifesting as people pleasing and perfectionism and kind of like disconnection from their authentic identities. So I work with them in a stage where they're finally like, Okay, I need to understand who I am and what I need. And I'm no longer under the confines of living at home or living with parents or caregivers. So a lot of like identity exploration, which obviously comes with depression and anxiety and panic and all the things that you talk about on your podcast. So yeah, yeah, that's,
I am so excited to dive into this because I know you love ifs, but let's just start with the very basic, what the heck is
it? Totally. So it's yet another acronym in therapy, we have like CBT, E, F, T ifs, and I can totally see how somebody on like, not a therapist, or a caregiver would be very confused by all these acronyms. So as you said, if S stands for internal family systems, it is a more attachment and relational style of therapy. It's less kind of focused on the solutions and more on building our relationship with ourselves so that we can expand our relationship with others, it can get a little bit complex, so I'm going to try to break it down as best as I can. The primary premise of ifs is that we are all made up of a ton of different complex parts. So a lot of times in our like pathologizing society, we're like, I'm an alcoholic, I'm depressed, I have panic disorder, and we become this very flat label.
Yeah, I'm an I'm an anxious person. Right? Right, anxious versus when I hear every day.
Exactly. And it really flattens our experiences to just the anxiety or just the alcoholism, and IFS really prioritizes, the fact that we're not a monolith, and that we have all these different complex parts of us that stem from complex experiences that we, you know, go through throughout our lives. My favorite part about ifs is that it's not pathologizing. And it's really focused on the fact that everything we do and everything we are, is to protect ourselves. So it takes away a lot of the shame that we experience. I can kind of go through in a little bit like the different types of parts of us and give examples so that I can get a little bit more like, demonstrative of the model. But that's kind of like an overview of what it is and what it believes in. Yeah,
I Gosh, when I first heard about this, I was like, Ooh, this sounds so interesting, because I think exactly what you said what I took away from it was, this would help you so much in working through that shame, which is such a big part of anyone struggling with any aspect of their mental health. And this idea of building our relationships with our style. hopes, which I think is such a big part of what so many people are missing, because we're just looking at things. So just, there's just this one issue, right? There's just one thing that I need to solve. And if I go at this, like it just gonna fix everything. And so much of what you said, right, that's what I love about ifs is there, we have so many different parts, and we are complex. And if you look at all of these different parts, right, it helps you to start to have more of an understanding of why you have some of these behaviors and patterns and how they've actually tried to help you not harm you. So, so good.
No, I'm, I'm really excited about it. I can kind of share, like, the different types of parts of that would be helpful just to break it down a little bit more, because they'll see people being like, wait, what, I still don't get it. Right,
right. Like we have all these parts, what the heck are you talking about? Exactly.
So um, I always say there's literally no need to memorize this, your ifs therapist will know these parts. And you don't have to, like categorize your parts or anything like that. But just to explain a little bit more of the types of parts that we all hold on to. So there's three types of parts. The first type is protectors, slash managers. So these are the parts of us that are very proactive in preventing us from feeling pain, and really uncomfortable emotions. Or pain and really uncomfortable emotions are called exiles, which I'll get to in a little bit. But our protectors are things that are also socially sanctioned, and actually kind of encouraged. So for example, perfectionism, people pleasing. Anxiety is a protector and a manager. And these, you know, people who, who will say, like, oh, my gosh, she's so hard working, she just like, it's so great. Meanwhile, that hard worker, that perfectionist is struggling so deeply internally, right. So those are our protectors, the main takeaway from that is that they proactively ensure that we are not touching that pain, or that fear or that shame. The second type is firefighters and firefighters reactively jump into motion when the pain is triggered. So for example, like my go to is, you know, drinking, or which so many people do, right, like, oh my gosh, I've had such a brutal day at work, like where's the wine, or binging purging, a lot of disordered eating is kind of falls in that realm. Self harm, things like that. So the point of firefighters is that when they feel the pain, or shame or exile being triggered, they're like, Okay, what can we do to pull us out of this very quickly. And then the last part is, the exiles, and exiles are painful parts of us that didn't, that were not witnessed when we were younger. So they've kind of grown into these very painful, emotional parts of us that we do not like to feel, right. So I'm trying to think, if I missed anything, so yeah, we have managers, firefighters, and exiles, what we want to do in ifs is work with our protectors. So we work with our managers and our firefighters, and see what their concerns are about us touching the exile. And then once all of those concerns are addressed, and we learn how they're trying to protect us, they can settle back. And then we can access and witness this pain that we haven't been able to access and witness before. And that's where the liberation comes from.
So this is so interesting. I, you know, my brains immediately going into the space of it seems very normal, right, that we would all have managers and firefighters. Yeah, we think. Yeah, and it's, but I think so often, right? We look at those things as being bad. Like, it is not good that I have these things. And I think being able to see it differently, like how can we spin it right to take that shame away of like, it actually makes sense that these things are present?
Right. Exactly. Yeah. And the just like you said, like, we all have these parts of us and that's the first thing to recognize is that, you know, well one person might be self harming another person might be be drinking. And well, one person might be striving for perfectionism to distract themselves from the pain, another person might be super anxious trying to protect themselves from the pain. So when we try to like push down or away our protectors, they're just gonna fight harder, right? They want to be seen, they want to be witnessed. So I know you, like focus a lot on anxiety and panic, which very naturally comes up in my work as well. And the first step would be like turning towards the anxiety, which people might be like, Oh, my God, but I don't want to turn towards the anxiety. Like, I want to know.
What's the next option?
Yeah, exactly. Well, we we turn towards it. And we ask this part of us questions like, How old is this part? How long has it been playing this role in our system, and a lot of times, it's really young. And there's been things that, you know, they've realized that they've had to protect themselves. If if we can be anxious and be hyper vigilant all the time, then we can protect ourselves from X, Y, and Z. And continues and continues until we really, you know, give it the attention that it needs.
It's so funny, because when I was reading about ifs, and specifically, I read your blog posts on AFS, which is really good. I was thinking, Oh, my gosh, this brings me back to when I was in therapy. And I don't think necessarily ifs was really a thing when I was in therapy. But I think it's something that's been around for quite some time. And it brought me back to, you know, some of the questions that I really had to pose and get honest with myself about of when did this anxiety show up? And when did the panic show up? And, you know, not looking at it in a way of, I need to know, because if I can pinpoint it exactly. And go back there, I can fix it. But just being able to recognize, Oh, dang, there's a really good reason why it popped up. And there's a really good reason why it continues to hang around. But it's so tough, because you don't see it as being a protector. You see it as being so harmful, and something that's attacking you and something that you obviously want to get rid of because it feels really uncomfortable.
Right, exactly. So I'm
curious, because I think this is where my brain is now going. It sounds like some ifs work and like, inner child work might go hand in hand like does that crossover here?
Totally. So our parts are our inner children, right? So, you know, when we go into work with a protector, let's just say one of the questions we might ask is, how old is this part, like I said, and a lot of times you get like, Oh, she's five, I'm seeing her and like, parents house, and my parents are fighting, and I'm trying to do everything to keep my siblings, you know, at, stop, stop my siblings from crying, things like that, right? So we actually get to witness these really young parts of us. And of course, memories pop up, or there were people will be like woof was not expecting to like have wild visualization today. So yes, a lot of the work is this really beautiful connection between yourself like your current self, and this younger part of you. And one of the really important parts of ifs is the idea that we all have the inner capacity to heal. And when we what's called unblended from our parts, so when we kind of have them all step back, we are in our quote unquote, self mode, which is filled with compassion and curiosity and clarity. So when we have access to our self mode, and we can connect with our part, like the part I just named, we can say like, Oh, I see that part is trying so hard to protect me and to protect my family. And we we build this relationship that's so much more compassionate and loving and tender than the like, Oh, I'm anxious like why am I always anxious? This is so frustrating, you know? Yeah,
that's it's like that's where I can get on board with inner child work because they feel like whenever it was posed to me, I was like, oh, gosh, that come on. Like, I don't want to go back to my childhood do we have to do that but in this way of Oh my goodness, I've never held compassion and grace for myself as to why, you know, things have looked the way that they have. And for me a huge connection was kind of the example that you gave right of i was in a home where things were fairly volatile, and I had a parent that was very explosive. And often they didn't feel safe. And so, of course, the anxiety showed up. And my immediate response to that was control, right? Like, I need control and being able to see that but then, of course, it morphed like, as I got older, and then into my teenage years, it started to look differently. And then of course, here comes early adulthood, and then I'm like, ooh, firefighters, these are, these are great, right? This is, this is going to help me fix this, or at least calm it down a bit so that I can function and then getting into you know, my early 20s. And seeing, okay, this is it. This isn't working. Like I cannot continue to do this. And I think a lot of you know what you're saying, I love that you use the words compassion, and curiosity and clarity, cuz I think that's exactly what we're searching for. But when you don't embrace this, and look at this with the sense of compassion and curiosity, it's so hard because you just start constantly beating yourself up for how it looks and why it looks the way it doesn't. And how, why you can't fix it and why, you know, you're now in your early 20s. And things are still just as disruptive. It's like, such a cycle. It
is such a cycle. And yeah, the we have like the seven C's and self mode, which are like compassion, curiosity, calm, clarity, etc. And we all have access to that. But in order to have access to that, we have to unblended from our parts. And it comes very naturally. Um, one thing I wanted to mention, after you just said, what you said, was that one of the most powerful things I've learned in my ifs training so far is that our protectors end up recreating the environments that they're trying to protect us from what you said of like, then I learned, you know, firefighters, and I was doing all these things that didn't actually help me, I was trying to escape from the pain, but I'm recreating and contributing to the shame that I'm already experiencing. Right. So when we, especially with firefighters, like the things that aren't as socially sanctioned, or that we're not really proud of. They increase shame, which is essentially what they're also trying to like, fight. So it's very, very
complex. Yeah, it is. It's so tricky. And I think, God, I say all the time, like, so much of the key to so much of healing is this compassion and being able to look at things more curiously. And I think that was a huge shift for me, when I started to look at things through more of a curious lens of why why and not with the shaming. Why, what did you do? How did you create this? Like, how is this your fault? And being able to see, my gosh, none of this was ever my fault. And yeah, there were definitely some behaviors like for me there was drinking in there. But really seeing that shame, right of it made sense why I reached for a lot of those things. And it's okay that I did. But is this is this actually helping me and getting curious in a gentle way of like, is this actually something that I want to continue doing? Because inevitably right running from it, like you said, trying to get rid of the anxiety trying to fight it just keeps it popping up? Because it's like, I'm here to protect you. I'm trying to help you get rid of this. Like I'm trying to help you to feel better. Just like, I look back, right? I think, Gosh, my mistakes so dang silly. Like, why didn't I listen?
Yeah, well, listening can be really scary sometimes. Right? Bring up all these other protectors. A lot of our protectors are really scared that if they take a step back, that we're going to be completely overwhelmed and flooded, and we're just not going to be able to handle and so we have to really work with their concerns of like, we got this like, look, we're gonna. Another thing is is that our parts think that we're younger than we are. So they think they get stuck in roles. So our five year old anxiety literally thinks that we're five years old. And so another thing we do in ifs is go in and update and be like no I'm actually like 30 years older than you think I am. We have all these tools and all this life experience. And our parts will literally be like we really, like I did not I still five. So a lot of these, these protectors and parts that we have are operating from, like the development of a five year old or a really young person. Yeah.
Oh, so true. So of course, I'm thinking, and I'm sure people are thinking with ifs, like, is the aim here? Like, we get rid of our parts? What are we doing with these parts?
So that's such a good question. And so important to clarify, our aim is never to get rid of the parts, one of the really important things in ifs as, like, from a therapists perspective is that there's actually really no agenda. Because when we have an agenda as a therapist, like, Okay, we're gonna get rid of this anxiety, our, our parts are gonna be like, Whoa, like and set up. They feel that, like, so much of therapy is obviously like unconscious, and body language and all those things. So, no, our aim is not to get rid of the parts. Our aim is to gain connection with them, and to learn about them with curiosity. And with that comes more of that self energy, more of the compassion, the clarity, the understanding. And if we, if we really work with our protectors, we can also then work with our exiles, which I know sounds really scary of like working with the pain, and some of those memories that are not, you know, that we'd really try hard not to work with. But we can actually what it's called an ifs we can unburden the exiles. So by a lot of times, our exiles are really young. And they're parts of us that have never really been seen by other people. So we can actually go in and witness the pain. And then they feel this sense of liberation, because they were actually witnessed, rather than, like, in a dark corner.
Yeah, that's a cool way right of viewing anything, because I think like you said, right, going into this sort of darkness is really terrifying. But to go into it with this lens of like, I'm not trying to go into it to necessarily fix I'm trying to go into it with curiosity and understanding. And that totally shifts things right. Because they think, oh, gosh, when you said no agenda, like, going into this, with no agenda, it's like, wait, what?
No, like sectors are like, wait, what?
Right, right. Like, we need an agenda. Because I think so much of us are fixers, like we we want to fix, we want to make things better we we of course, want to feel better. But I think, you know, a big reason, I'm sure, you know, you see this and I see this often is it's trying to get away from all the parts, right? And especially the exiles, like I am, I cannot handle facing that darkness that I've been running from for quite some time. And I think it's, it's so tough, because you don't think that you have the capacity to handle more, especially if you're struggling with something like an anxiety disorder, you can very easily convince yourself. I can't handle that, right? Yeah,
and there's absolutely no rush and ifs, there's no rush, there's no agenda. So we work with that anxious part for as long as it needs that can be set that I mean, people we work with protectors for many, many, many, many, many sessions. Before we even think to move to the exile, we have to ensure that every single one of our protectors is okay and trust that we can handle it. So it's not like, okay, anxiety, what's your fear? Can you take a step back now and then we're actually going to just work with the pain, that's not the goal. Because that would like retro act, what we're actually trying to do. So we want to make sure that the anxieties like really, truly Okay, and it's pretty profound. The way that our parts let us know if they're okay or not, or if they have a concern. I mean, I had never before I started my training, like I had never worked with an ifs therapist for myself, and in the train meaning you, like you practice with your classmates, you know, therapist client. And so I've now gotten to experience ifs therapy as the client. And it is so profound how our systems hold on to all of this information. And it's truly shifted the way that like, I look at myself, and then also the way that I look at the world around me, which is why this model is so profound. You know, when we begin shifting our relationship with ourselves and with our parts, we can approach the world around us and the people around us. With so much more compassion and understanding, you know, there's so many firefighters and protectors up right now in the world, because there's so much pain and so much exile. Right?
Oh, my gosh, it absolutely. And I think that's part of having so much grace, right? Looking at things through a very compassionate lens and knowing, right, we all have these parts, and it makes sense. And it's okay, but let's start to look at it differently more gently. So I'm curious, like, when do you typically use ifs with clients? Because they feel like some people, right are probably thinking like, gosh, I, you know, have had CBT thrown at me, I've had therapists suggest EMDR. It's like, what? Why do I do?
There's, I know, there's so many different models of therapy. And I am under the impression that every person needs and deserves like a unique and tailored approach. So I'm not saying that every single person is going to love ifs or every single person needs EMDR. From my perspective, there's two kind of major buckets of therapy. One is much more solution focused, much more focused on skill building on being in the present on looking more into the future. And then one is much more relational, it's much more like, I'm getting to the root of the, the issue kind of thing. And I fall into more of the second bucket. So like attachment, relational work, you know, we can work with like coping skills, but those are temporary fixes. So like, let's understand the why behind all of this. And that's kind of the bucket that ifs does fall into. So I would say like, CBT is much more like cognitive, let's keep it in the mind of like, how can we quickly fix this. And then an approach like ifs, it's much more of a whole body somatic approach to therapy, which is oftentimes, like what people don't really want to go into when they you know, they want a quick fix. And it's like, the quick fix only lasts for so long as we know.
It doesn't even really, quote work. Like we think it does, right? We sometimes think, Oh, this is working. And it's like, is it really is it really, and I think like you said, getting to the root, as uncomfortable as that can be, I think because we we love for things to not feel uncomfortable. We love to go with sort of things that feel like this is going to be a quicker, easier, you know, maybe not easy, of course, but easier fix, but actually looking at the root is, of course, so good for so much of our health in general, because it actually allows you to get into that, okay, why does it exist? How can we look at it differently? How can we change some of this and change our relationship with ourselves in our emotions? And then, oh, okay, I'm actually getting the relief and it's not continuing to pop up because they think like, some people will say, I'm good for like, months or even years, and then it hits me again. And I think when you do a lot of root work, it kind of really mitigates you from being on this roller coaster. And not to say it doesn't happen, right? Because life happens and events happen. But when you build a really good understanding of yourself and the whys and just changing that, oh my gosh, I that's where so much of my freedom came was like getting to the root and really shifting things.
Right. Exactly. So I think like actually, maybe to give like a little bit of an example might help I went when I started this I explained that I work a lot with like pee people pleasing and perfectionism. Um, so like a, a CBT approach, for example, might look at perfectionism as like black and white thinking and say like, well, this person has the tendency to think if I'm not perfect, then I fail. And there's this very all or nothing thinking paradigm. So let's change the thoughts, right? And that sure, like, can we journal about it? Can we use like breath work? Can we use some like, worksheets and kind of identify when these black and white thoughts are coming up, of course, and that that can help, like gain a little bit of awareness. And to me, just my personal experience with going through CBT therapy, it can also feel a little bit minimizing of like, well, we're just kind of jumping to the solutions, but we're not even understanding like, Why do I have these thoughts. And like, the worksheets might help for like, the very temporary moment, but they're not helping me like very long term, and IFS approach, which is like, you know, kind of the way that I look at a lot of the clients that I work with is, okay, this person is coming in with very high achieving perfectionism tendencies. So let's look at like, where this protector of perfectionism is coming in, we work with the protector, okay? Well, when we work with the protector, we find out that this client had a parent who was very absent. And the only way that the parent really tended to their needs was when they brought home those eight pluses. And when they showed that they were going to make the elite soccer team, and that's when they got the connection and the love that they really needed from their parent. And so they continue this, and they realize that in order to get love and attachment, they had to perform, and they had to be a very certain way. So that, to me feels so much more comprehensive than like, it's just black and white thinking, and it's kind of my fault for having black and white thinking, right?
Yeah, right. Or the, you know, and it's not to say this stuff can't be helpful to some capacity, but just like, Okay, I want you, you know, instead of checking off all the boxes on your to do list today, like leave a couple of them unchecked, and like sit with that uncomfortable feeling. And, you know, if some of these things can be helpful, but I think sort of what you're saying, and what we're alluding to is choosing a therapy, right, that you feel pulled towards, and that you're open to, I think can be incredibly helpful that if, if you're like, Yeah, this sounds really good. Like I actually want to, as uncomfortable as it's going to be, I want to get to the root, I don't just want these, you know, sort of quick fixes solutions, like, this sounds like it could be helpful for me. Cool, like, explore it, it very well, can be very,
yeah, totally. And ifs can be a really great like, complement to also other types of therapy. So I'm not like, primarily, I don't only use ifs, we don't sit down and immediately start working with our parts some therapists do. But I use like much more kind of like an eclectic mix of approaches, depending on the client that I'm working with. But for example, like EMDR, a lot of people will go through EMDR. And they'll experience what we call like a block, and they just can't get to where they they need to be to touch their trauma. That's because all the protectors are like, whoa, I'm not ready for this. So a lot of EMDR therapists are now getting trained in ifs or like EMDR with ifs to realize that we need to work with all these, these amazing parts of us that just want so badly to keep us safe and level and protected. In order to get to the exile the trauma, whatever it is,
yeah. So good. I've like, I love these conversations, because they feel like, Oh, it's just so incredible, because they think these things sound really overwhelming and scary and confusing. And this really helps to make it less all of those things. So I'm so grateful that you've come on Emily and had this conversation with us. And if somebody wants to learn more about ifs or is curious about the work that you do, and Ian wants to work with your connect with you, where can they find you? Yeah,
sure. So I'm on Instagram and Tik Tok is Emily Powell counseling. That's also the name of my website. So as I said, I'm located in Philly, so I work with folks living in Pennsylvania. But reach out if you have any questions or want to learn more, I'm more than happy to connect. Awesome.
I love it. Thank you so much, Emily.
Thank you
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