Let's Talk About Tackling Driving Anxiety - Q&A With Annie!
- Shannon Jackson
- Nov 4, 2024
- 34 min read
Let's Talk About Tackling Driving Anxiety - Q&A With Annie!
Driving anxiety is something I struggled with deeply—whether I was in the driver’s seat or just a passenger. The fear wasn’t so much about driving itself but more about the overwhelming “what-ifs” and panic attacks that came with every journey.
I know that so many struggle with driving anxiety. Recently, I had the chance to dig into this topic with Annie, and on this episode we share some incredibly practical and comforting insights while answering some of your most commonly asked questions about driving anxiety. Let's get into it!
"I'm constantly consumed by the thought of panicking while driving. How can I change this?" I really resonated with this question! When I first started to face driving anxiety, my brain would get stuck in a loop of worry. I was so afraid of panicking, and that fear alone would often kick in before I even got into the car.
What I learned is that trying to constantly “think my way out of anxiety” only made it worse. Instead, allowing myself to feel the anxiety without trying to think and do my way out of feeling was key.
"How can I actually trust that I'm not going to pass out while driving?" This was one of my biggest fears when I was struggling! Anxiety loves to trick us into believing that the worst will happen.
Some things that really helped me were reframing my anxious sensations as a sign that my body was actually keeping me alert and present, not working against me. It's also important to remember that trust grows with each small experience where we let anxiety pass without incident. For me, every drive, even the short ones, became a small step in building this trust.
"How do you build up confidence if you've been avoiding driving for a while?" For a long time, my way of coping with driving anxiety was simply not driving. Overcoming this avoidance is about taking tiny, manageable steps. This might look like starting with something as small as sitting in the car without driving, or even visualizing yourself driving. Breaking your fear down into small steps and gradually extending your comfort zone will be so helpful to overcoming driving anxiety.
"What is your best tip for overcoming driving anxiety?" One of the biggest tips, and is such a game-changer, is that so much of the healing happens outside of the car. Learning to sit with your feelings, practice mindfulness, and let go of control in other areas of life is so important. Remember, overcoming this isn’t about pushing through it all at once; it’s about taking those small steps, feeling what you need to feel, and trusting that you’re stronger than the anxiety would have you believe.
We answer these in lots more detail, along with lots more questions, so make sure to tune in for all of the goodness!
Alright, until next time, keep taking healthy action!
Feel anxious or experience the symptoms and panic attacks nearly every time you get in a car (or bus, train, plane...)? Sign up for my mini course that will help you to overcome driving anxiety and experience lots more peace and freedom in cars and on public transportation (& in life in general)! Feeling like you've tried everything but you're still struggling with lots of anxious thoughts, symptoms, panic attacks, and fears? Take my FREE 60-minute masterclass today and learn 5 shifts that will actually help you to overcome anxiety, panic disorder, and agoraphobia. And I promise, you won't hear any of the usual stuff from me - like doing breathing exercises, grounding practices, cutting out caffeine, and doing more exposures. Let's get you the peace and freedom you deserve without it being so hard!
Check out my masterclasses here and start experiencing lots more peace, joy, & freedom!
TRANSCRIPT
00:12.80
ahealthypush
Here's another Q and&A episode with Annie. Hi, Annie.
00:16.27
Annie
Hi.
00:16.46
ahealthypush
I'm so happy to see you.
00:18.05
Annie
I know. How do you see you?
00:19.96
ahealthypush
ah I feel like we were just chatting for literally a half hour before I finally was like, okay, let's hit record and dive into this.
00:25.74
Annie
great I know.
00:28.37
ahealthypush
So
00:28.67
Annie
I like kind of forgot. Okay.
00:30.21
ahealthypush
Yeah. Yeah. like Okay. Focus. We're going to focus. We're going to talk about driving anxiety, which is like ooof something I struggled with for so long.
00:33.61
Annie
Yeah.
00:39.76
ahealthypush
I know you've struggled with. like I feel like everyone who comes to me has some troubles with driving.
00:46.32
Annie
Yeah.
00:46.43
ahealthypush
so We're going to get into a bunch of questions. And I think before we jump in, I just want to say like and highlight this because I think it's important. When we talk about driving anxiety, it's like not really about the driving, right? Like it's never about I'm scared to drive. Like I'm scared. I'm not like confident in my driving abilities. Like it's rarely about any of that. It's usually about I don't like feeling stuck, trapped.
01:15.41
ahealthypush
I don't want to experience anxiety or panic in the car because I'm like so afraid that I'm not going to be able to handle it.
01:19.81
Annie
yeah
01:22.41
ahealthypush
And that's really what it comes down to. So I feel like when we say driving anxiety, I think sometimes that can be like, what does that mean?
01:27.04
Annie
Yeah.
01:29.70
ahealthypush
And it's usually just centered around, I don't want to feel anxious or panic in the car, period. And like I'm trying to avoid that from happening.
01:37.78
Annie
Yeah.
01:38.12
ahealthypush
So fun fun stuff.
01:39.33
Annie
Yeah.
01:41.70
Annie
I know and I think it's so funny too how like it can either be like driving is like what gives you the anxiety or being a passenger for me personally, it is driving like I'm passenger princess all day.
01:54.12
Annie
ah Yeah, so.
01:55.34
ahealthypush
Yeah, no, I'm so like, that's so good that you mentioned that because I think I hear such a mix or some people will say it doesn't matter, like all of it, whether I'm driving or the passenger, it gives me so much anxiety.
01:55.70
Annie
and
02:02.38
Annie
Yeah.
02:06.08
ahealthypush
That was me. But similarly to you, I hated being the passenger more. Well, no, no, opposite of you, then I felt like I had even less control as the passenger.
02:11.10
Annie
yeah yeah
02:16.75
ahealthypush
And that would send me spiraling pretty quickly because I was like, what if I panic? What if I freak out? I can't just tell this person, like you need to do something. like You need to pull over. You need to, oh my gosh, I remember even with my mom, like people that I knew and I trusted and I felt comfortable with, I still had so much anxiety driving with them.
02:32.03
Annie
Yeah.
02:35.32
Annie
Yeah, same.
02:37.03
ahealthypush
and Then too, I feel like there's so much here. My God, we're not even going to get into questions. But like the driving part, right being scared to be the driver, I feel like yeah Also, with being scared to be the passenger, it all comes down to this like lack of trust that you have within yourself.
02:54.55
Annie
Yeah.
02:55.69
ahealthypush
But especially as the driver, like I don't trust that if I do feel anxious that like I'm going to be able to stay in control and that I'm going to be okay. And that's so hard when you don't trust yourself because that, gosh, will send you spiraling pretty easily.
03:12.30
Annie
yeah
03:13.28
ahealthypush
But I think, along with driving anxiety, right a lot of people will say, of course, it's not just cars. It's buses, trains, boats, planes, all of it. So I feel like everything that we're going to talk about applies to all the other modes of transportation, too, because that that was me.
03:29.74
Annie
Yeah.
03:30.25
ahealthypush
It was like, it didn't matter what it was, car, plane, train. There was anxiety and panic and a living shit show on all of them or any of them.
03:38.14
Annie
Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. It does apply. Okay.
03:42.38
ahealthypush
yeah yeah
03:42.89
Annie
Well, We'll just go ahead and get into our first question before we keep chatting.
03:47.41
ahealthypush
right
03:47.98
Annie
um So the first question is, I'm constantly consumed by the thought of panicking while driving. How can I change this?
03:55.78
ahealthypush
Oh, yeah, this is like what really generates, right? A lot of the anxiety, the panic, is I'm constantly thinking about it. And I think it's important to highlight, right? Like you're consumed with the thought of panicking because it's probably happened before, right? And you remember and you know how terrible it was and how scary it was. And so you've had a lot of thinking surrounding this, like that memory, that thing that you never want to happen again. So because of that, right you put so much emphasis on anxiety. And the real reason right why you start to get really consumed by the thoughts, the feelings is because
04:40.19
ahealthypush
you've likely been trying to think your way out of feeling for a long time.
04:44.19
Annie
I'm
04:44.93
ahealthypush
like've been trying to If I you know keep thinking about it, I'm going to somehow be able to prevent it.
04:48.81
Annie
scared.
04:50.67
ahealthypush
um And also, like you've probably been trying to avoid the panic from happening. So you're like doing things to try to make it so that you don't panic.
04:59.45
Annie
Okay.
05:00.11
ahealthypush
And I think I know, Annie, you're gonna be like, yeah, we all have had those things, right, that you do to try to make it so that you don't panic. Like, roll the windows down, pinch yourself, blast AC, music, call someone, use ice cubes, like water, whatever it is, right?
05:09.50
Annie
and
05:18.96
ahealthypush
Like, because you don't want to feel it.
05:19.53
Annie
Yeah.
05:22.98
ahealthypush
I don't know, I'm curious what you're thinking, because I'm sure you're like, yeah, that sounds familiar.
05:25.18
Annie
yeah Yeah, it really does. And I think it's funny because like I was that exact same way like for a long time, it was like the AC blasting it or like I had these like ginger candies that are like very spicy. So I'd like eat those. And and yeah, it's like, I mean, I've been in therapy for a while too. But like,
05:44.01
Annie
over time, I've just finally started to realize that like, I've never actually doing anything. And like, I've always been the same to where it's like, oh, I can, you know, like I can pull over if I need to. But I find that that thinking is actually what like amplifies my panic. Personally, it's like this, like giving myself all the options of like, while I'm already feeling heightened is like, okay, should I pull over? Should I keep going? Should I this and that? And it's like, almost ahead of time, what I like to do is be like,
06:12.30
Annie
I am just gonna go here and we're gonna go there and if I really need to I can stop but like sometimes giving myself all those options is what also heightens it for me.
06:21.05
ahealthypush
Oh.
06:23.62
ahealthypush
Yeah.
06:23.69
Annie
This happened to me just yesterday. I had to go pick up my husband from work and I had a panic attack while I was driving And a few months ago, it would have been like too much for me to bear. But like, because I've practiced this so much, I was just like, okay.
06:37.17
Annie
And so it is interesting. And like, I do want anyone to listen, anyone who's listening to know, like there's a hope for it where it's like, you might think like what you're feeling is the end of the world. But the more you get used to it, the more you I wouldn't even have considered it a panic attack.
06:51.62
Annie
I was just like, Oh, yeah, like it was, but I'm just so used to it.
06:55.00
ahealthypush
Yeah.
06:55.85
Annie
Anyway, so
06:57.14
ahealthypush
That's crazy. No, I love I love when you share the real life stuff, because people obviously can relate to that and learn from it too.
07:01.65
Annie
yeah
07:04.18
ahealthypush
I think, you know, so much of why we struggle with the thoughts with the feelings is because there's so much resistance. And I always tell my students like everyone that I work with, of course, there's resistance, right?
07:11.88
Annie
and
07:15.92
ahealthypush
Like nobody wants to feel that uncomfortable. Nobody wants to experience panic, especially if you have
07:20.57
Annie
Yeah.
07:22.30
ahealthypush
many times before. like Of course, you're going to try to resist it, but how we heal right is actually allowing ourselves to feel and to not continue to think and do our way out of the feeling.
07:35.50
Annie
Yeah.
07:35.62
ahealthypush
But yeah, like you said, right the the mental stuff can often be more tricky for people because you're so used to like the thought patterns you
07:41.30
Annie
Hmm.
07:45.20
ahealthypush
are thinking like, if I do panic, could I pull over? ken What can I do? What's the closest place? Who could I call? you know That stuff is really hard to undo because it's like so habitual.
07:53.14
Annie
Yeah.
07:56.00
ahealthypush
But yeah, so how can I change this? right This is sort of the sucky answer to all of this. is resisting, right? Entertaining the thoughts, like really doing your best to not go down all those rabbit holes, resisting trying, you know, your best to not throw all the things at anxiety to make it stop.
08:17.67
ahealthypush
Like really resist trying to think or do your way out of feeling, like letting yourself actually feel. And yeah, this is one of the shittiest parts of recovery, but it's also one of the most important.
08:24.64
Annie
Yeah.
08:28.16
Annie
Yeah.
08:30.60
Annie
it Yeah, it really is and like I truly like for anyone listening I really thought I would never be able to do something like picking my husband up from work But it's like the more you practice it and that's the thing is a few months ago or I guess like six or eight months ago I would have just never been willing to try and it's just crazy like I never believed it until I started doing it But like it really does just happen over time.
08:54.29
Annie
So It's hard, but it is possible
08:57.10
ahealthypush
It's hard. bill Like you said, it does happen. And it really happens without you even realizing it. Just once your brain gets enough practice, it starts to become more familiar, right, with the feelings and like, Oh, okay, this isn't we don't need to like signal the alarms all the time.
09:01.32
Annie
Yeah.
09:06.72
Annie
Yeah.
09:11.18
Annie
Yeah.
09:11.46
ahealthypush
That's good. I love that.
09:12.65
Annie
Exactly. Yeah. So our second question is, how do I keep calm when I feel stuck, especially when I'm in traffic? Which, oof.
09:20.10
ahealthypush
Oh,
09:21.18
Annie
Yeah.
09:21.87
ahealthypush
I know. Are you sweating just like reading this question out loud?
09:25.96
Annie
Yes.
09:27.02
ahealthypush
I mean, there were so many instances, traffic, sitting at red lights, sitting just to take a turn, like in there were three, four cars ahead of me, that would send me spiraling.
09:39.09
ahealthypush
But it was because I was entertaining all the thoughts, I was trying to resist all the feelings I would before I even came to a light or whatever, I would be like, okay, what am I going to do?
09:39.46
Annie
Yeah.
09:49.11
Annie
Yeah.
09:51.43
ahealthypush
if I feel anxious, like could I get out of this?
09:51.46
Annie
Yeah.
09:54.18
ahealthypush
Could I just turn around? Could I, oh my God, all the thoughts. So I think an interesting thing here with this one is not trying to keep yourself calm because I think this was something that I often tried to do when I found it just really backfired was convincing myself that like, if I just stay calm, then I'm not gonna feel and like everything's gonna be okay.
10:18.61
ahealthypush
Honestly, when you're feeling anxious, if you're having a panic attack, there is no keeping yourself calm. like It's kind of pointless to put any energy into trying to calm yourself because your body's just going to do its thing at that point.
10:24.04
Annie
Yeah.
10:32.38
ahealthypush
and It really is like just letting it go there and letting it like look however it looks.
10:38.20
Annie
Yeah.
10:38.26
ahealthypush
I think It's important to recognize that we can't force calmness, and that shouldn't be the goal. But when you really do the practice of dropping the resistance, letting yourself feel what you're feeling, and just allowing yourself to practice just more so being, that's what actually helps to bring the trust within yourself and also brings that calmness.
11:03.23
ahealthypush
So it's like the trust is what brings the calmness, but you can't just make yourself calm.
11:03.67
Annie
Accepting his way. Yeah, that's such a good way to put it. That's exactly what it is. Because it's almost like every time you just say, okay, like, let it happen.
11:15.79
Annie
It's like, for in my experience, it's almost never as bad as it would be if I'm like trying to fight it.
11:21.30
ahealthypush
here Yeah, yeah.
11:21.49
Annie
Because of that, that's a really good way to put it that trust. So yeah, um so our next one is more someone kind of sharing one of their fears with us that is very common.
11:31.61
Annie
And I've had this before, but they said, I'm afraid that the panic attack will never end.
11:33.40
ahealthypush
Oh.
11:36.23
Annie
So I loved hearing your thoughts on this.
11:39.09
ahealthypush
Yeah, all of this, they're so, I feel like when I got all the questions and I read them, I'm like, oh, it's just so much fear. There's so much fear and it makes sense.
11:45.73
Annie
Uh-huh.
11:47.23
ahealthypush
Like you're scared.
11:48.00
Annie
Yeah.
11:49.03
ahealthypush
There's been experiences, you have memories, like you know how bad it can be. You don't want any of the hard stuff to happen and I get it, like that makes sense. um This, I'm afraid the panic will never end.
12:01.93
ahealthypush
You know, our brains will always go to the worst case scenarios, right? As a means to protect us. like the reason why they jump to, well, what if this happens and what if that happens and what are we going to do is because it's constantly trying to help us and protect us, especially in an anxious state. And it's really hard, of course, like we've talked about to slow that down and like respond to that stuff in a healthy way. But you know, like the reality, right, it's going to end, it's always ended. But we can't just tell ourselves that and have our brains feel like, oh,
12:33.86
ahealthypush
Okay, got it.
12:34.41
Annie
and
12:34.62
ahealthypush
Like, got it.
12:35.92
Annie
exactly
12:36.03
ahealthypush
This is not a problem. Like, well, we'll just go away now. But I think something that can be really helpful is reminding yourself of an instance where you felt how you're currently feeling and recognizing like, okay, I felt this way, literally, like two months ago at the grocery store.
12:53.75
ahealthypush
It did pass. I got through it.
12:56.20
Annie
yeah
12:56.23
ahealthypush
Like,
12:56.57
Annie
Yeah.
12:56.73
ahealthypush
That can be helpful. I think also too, when you just get better at letting yourself feel and like you drop that resistance, the it usually doesn't go to panic.
13:07.27
ahealthypush
Or if it does, it'll kind of go up and come down more quickly and more easily than if you're constantly trying to fight that.
13:12.07
Annie
Definitely.
13:15.53
ahealthypush
But yeah, the gist I think we know this. right like The panic is always going to end. It's never going to keep going. like our bodies don't have the capacity to just panic for long periods of time.
13:27.86
ahealthypush
It might feel like you're panicking for hours, but you're not.
13:28.45
Annie
Yeah.
13:31.06
ahealthypush
That's like not possible.
13:32.76
Annie
Yeah.
13:32.88
ahealthypush
um But I always tell people this too, which I think is really helpful and was really helpful for me. This fight or flight response, the panic attack, it would not exist in our bodies if we couldn't handle it.
13:45.25
ahealthypush
so You have to recognize like this physiological response is happening,
13:45.30
Annie
Yeah.
13:50.26
ahealthypush
sucks. It's scary, but your body can handle it and it's going to do a much better job at handling it if you just step away and let it let it do its thing and it will end.
13:59.44
Annie
Yeah.
14:01.13
ahealthypush
It will end.
14:02.54
Annie
Gosh, that's such a good way to put it. Yeah, I mean, it's so true. And like, I think that a lot of times when you're struggling with like panic and agoraphobia, you can forget how resilient the human body really is. And like, you can start to believe you really are fragile.
14:15.49
Annie
I know that was the case for me.
14:15.59
ahealthypush
yeah
14:17.13
Annie
And so that is just a good reminder, I think with anything like this is that you're so resilient and like panic is certainly not going to hurt you. It's not dangerous.
14:27.63
Annie
that was something I struggled with for so long is just finally rubbing my head around the fact that you are not going to die from panic like it's it's normal and it's I mean we don't like it but it is a normal thing it actually is a good sign it means you're you know your brain works yes exactly
14:36.39
ahealthypush
Mm hmm. Yeah.
14:44.48
ahealthypush
Yeah, alive, you're human. And this mechanism, it kind of it sucks, right? When you're struggling with panic disorder, negoraphobia, because It's like misfiring, but it's a totally normal thing that's occurring.
14:56.27
ahealthypush
And yeah, like if you couldn't handle it, it wouldn't exist. But I think this here rate is, I'm afraid it will never end as just a fear, a feeling.
15:04.19
Annie
Yeah.
15:04.23
ahealthypush
And when you get better at feeling, things start to get a lot easier.
15:07.91
Annie
Yeah, exactly. Well, our fourth question is, how can I actually trust I'm not going to pass out while driving?
15:09.68
ahealthypush
Yeah.
15:15.52
Annie
And how do I know I won't crash my car during a panic attack?
15:18.73
ahealthypush
Oh. all these things, right? So much fear, like, and I used to have all of them, like, what if I do pass out?
15:22.27
Annie
Yeah. Yeah.
15:25.67
ahealthypush
What if, you know, I would feel depersonalization? derealization all the time while I was driving and I would think, oh my God, what if I just like check out and I i don't even know what happens?
15:37.21
Annie
Yeah.
15:37.27
ahealthypush
like So these worst case scenarios, right thinking of them is just fear. right This is just fear. And it's our you know brains going to all those worst case scenarios.
15:49.73
ahealthypush
We know these things are highly unlikely to happen, but we have to work on putting trust back within ourselves. right That's really the key to this. And part of that happens by not trying to get all the certainty, like by not trying to always make sure that like the worst stuff isn't going to happen, like that you're always going to be okay, that you're not going to feel you you know really getting more comfy with the uncertainty that is in our
16:04.69
Annie
yeah
16:18.65
ahealthypush
everyday lives all the freaking time.
16:20.79
Annie
Yeah.
16:20.95
ahealthypush
So like, yeah, you want the certainty that you're not going to pass out, that you're not going to crash your car, that like nothing bad is going to happen, but you don't need that certainty. So it's like recognizing, right?
16:31.33
ahealthypush
Like I can let go of this really tight grip that I have and that's going to feel sucky and uncomfortable, but it actually lets you see and build that trust.
16:37.81
Annie
Yeah.
16:41.13
ahealthypush
And obviously partly that trust happens when you take the small steps, right? That I always talk about. to let yourself feel, to let yourself go and do the hard things so that you can actually see like, okay, none of this worst stuff um ever actually happens.
16:57.48
ahealthypush
And I have the capacity to handle all of it, whatever it is.
16:57.61
Annie
Yeah.
17:01.80
ahealthypush
But I get it.
17:01.87
Annie
Yeah.
17:02.45
ahealthypush
I get, oh, these, you know, it's just trying to prevent yourself from feeling is what it comes down to.
17:07.50
Annie
yeah
17:07.92
ahealthypush
you
17:08.86
Annie
exactly yeah and one time my therapist told me this because sometimes we'll do like exposures kind of on the phone and one of the times i was driving on the freeway and she told me because i had the same thought i was like what if i like get in a car accident or what if i run over somebody whatever it was i don't even remember Um, and she was, she brought up something that really helped me.
17:28.72
Annie
And it was just saying that, you know, like when you actually have anxiety, it might not feel like you are like perceiving everything around you as well, but like your senses are heightened. And so, you know, might not feel like it, like you still are very aware.
17:41.94
ahealthypush
Yeah.
17:42.09
Annie
So that kind of helped me with that in mind.
17:43.37
ahealthypush
Yeah. Oh, I love that because they think some people will say like, how do I keep myself focused. like How do I stay make sure sort of right that I'm in control?
17:50.23
Annie
Yeah.
17:53.20
Annie
yeah
17:54.13
ahealthypush
And it's like, you don't need to do that. like Your body is going to do its thing, and you are very aware.
17:56.58
Annie
Yeah.
18:00.42
Annie
Mm-hmm.
18:00.52
ahealthypush
But obviously, when you're in that anxious mode, everything, like all that just goes out the window, and you're like, nope, don't got it.
18:04.83
Annie
Right. yeah Yes, definitely.
18:07.59
ahealthypush
But yeah, that's helpful. I'm glad you shared that.
18:10.05
Annie
Yeah. um Our next question is, how can it be safe when you're feeling panicked, de-realized, and dysregulated while driving?
18:18.23
ahealthypush
Oh, yeah. More fear, right? Like, please tell me that I'm going to be okay.
18:21.91
Annie
yeah
18:25.38
ahealthypush
And this is just so hard. It might not feel safe, right? That's the the key here, right? It might not feel safe to have panic, to feel de-realized, to feel really heightened while you're driving.
18:39.75
ahealthypush
But it is safe and you can't convince yourself like I always encourage rate like slowing down self talk responding in a healthy way. But you're not going to start to convince yourself like this is safe. Everything's fine.
18:50.30
ahealthypush
You're okay, especially when you're feeling really anxious.
18:51.83
Annie
Mm hmm.
18:53.86
ahealthypush
So I think like we talked about briefly before it can be really helpful to recognize like a time where you felt really scared, really uncomfortable, really overwhelmed, even unrelated to anxiety. Because I think like there are so many instances in our day-to-day lives, like whether you're doing something brand new, like you've never done the thing before, you're meeting, you're going on a date, you're meeting somebody new for the first time, or you're flying, or you're going on a roller coaster, like all these things, right? Like you might not feel like these things are safe because of what you're internally feeling.
19:27.30
Annie
Mm-hmm.
19:28.37
ahealthypush
like It's scary, right? You might be feeling some actual sensations and symptoms, but that doesn't mean that you're not safe. like You're going to get on the roller coaster, the plane, you're going to go on the date.
19:39.61
ahealthypush
like Everything's going to be okay, but you've got to actually let yourself take those steps and see that.
19:46.73
Annie
Yeah.
19:46.78
ahealthypush
And because your mind is always going to tell you differently, like your mind is always going to go there and tell you, but it's not safe. You can't feel this way, especially while you're driving.
19:57.16
ahealthypush
And it's like, wait, how many times, right? Have I felt this way?
20:02.22
Annie
Yeah.
20:02.33
ahealthypush
This is why we take action. Like this is why we allow ourselves to feel and why we allow ourselves to do the things so that we can see I can feel really scared and uncomfortable, but still be safe at the same time.
20:15.80
ahealthypush
And I think that's shitty, right?
20:15.98
Annie
Yeah.
20:17.34
ahealthypush
Because I look back and I'm like, I think if somebody had said that to me when I was struggling, I would be like, I call bullshit.
20:23.74
Annie
Yeah.
20:23.82
ahealthypush
Like, what about this instance?
20:24.57
Annie
Yeah.
20:25.72
ahealthypush
What about? Yeah. Like it doesn't feel safe.
20:28.32
Annie
Yeah.
20:28.61
ahealthypush
Like it doesn't feel safe, but You know, it's nobody's ever told me a panic attack that they've had where they've literally been in danger and like something really bad happened.
20:39.66
ahealthypush
I haven't answered it.
20:40.00
Annie
yeah
20:41.05
ahealthypush
I mean, I've worked with hundreds of people. So, you know, it's just, it's accepting that uncertainty, right?
20:43.08
Annie
yeah and
20:47.29
ahealthypush
Like, sure, bad things could happen all the time, but it doesn't mean just because you're feeling that bad things are going to happen.
20:48.95
Annie
Yeah.
20:53.71
Annie
Yeah. And another thing too that I've noticed is like, I feel like you just become much more like risk averse, like when you're struggling with anxiety.
21:01.66
ahealthypush
Um, yeah.
21:01.99
Annie
And there's also just the reality of like accepting that being alive and getting to live is such an amazing thing, but there's inherent risk that comes with anything. And that also like, I don't know if that's just me, but like that almost put me at peace and being like, you know what, like I can't control everything.
21:19.16
Annie
Like it's, yeah.
21:20.68
ahealthypush
Yeah.
21:21.32
Annie
So.
21:21.68
ahealthypush
No, I'm glad you said that because I think so many of us, I don't know. This is like going to be a little bit of a tangent, but there's a lot of people probably know him. His name's Alex Hunnold. He like climbs. He's done a lot of free soloing, which is just honestly batshit crazy mind blowing that like he climbs these massive like rock faces without a harness, without a rope.
21:33.71
Annie
Yeah.
21:41.37
ahealthypush
And people are like, there is something wrong with your amygdala. Like it does not exist or, and he's like, no, I just, I push myself constantly.
21:45.93
Annie
Yeah. know
21:50.14
ahealthypush
to feel scared.
21:50.94
Annie
yeah
21:51.78
ahealthypush
And at some point, right, your body gets used to it, like your brain gets used to it. And I think it's that risk aversion, right?
21:56.88
Annie
Yeah.
21:58.76
ahealthypush
We're all as humans, like, ah oh, like, I don't want to do that. That's scary. Like, I don't want to take that leap. But how we actually build, right, that trust, that confidence and quiet, the anxiety is by doing things that are scary as hell and allowing ourselves to go there.
22:15.92
ahealthypush
And yeah, I think I don't know. I would just encourage, it might be triggering, but but I think watching somebody like that and just like I saw a reel of his that he did the other day and he's like, what when was the last time you did something that really scared you?
22:28.86
Annie
Yeah.
22:28.88
ahealthypush
And he's like, most humans are walking around every day trying to not do anything that scares them. They're trying to constantly be comfortable and that creates so much chaos mentally.
22:40.67
Annie
Yeah.
22:40.67
ahealthypush
And I was like, dang, it's so true. And so, I mean, you all know, like I try every, like it didn't stop when I recovered.
22:43.83
Annie
Yeah.
22:48.55
ahealthypush
Like I'm constantly trying to push myself and feel uncomfortable and get more comfy with that. Cause like those feelings don't just stop when you recover. Like things still feel scary sometimes.
22:57.34
Annie
ah
23:00.15
Annie
that's so true and I never really thought about it that way but it makes sense like anytime I've ever like gone out somewhere and had a panic attack and allowed myself to like come out of it the other side like I always have this like almost like endorphin rush of just like oh my gosh like confidence and like peace knowing like I did that and like I was fine so I can totally see what you're saying I think that's a really good point yeah
23:12.91
ahealthypush
Yeah. yeah
23:21.71
ahealthypush
yeah Yeah, that's exactly why I hike. like That's one of the biggest reasons is I'm like, dang, I did that. like I did that.
23:27.56
Annie
hu
23:27.91
ahealthypush
And it's just crazy how much we're capable of, but we don't ever quite push ourselves there mentally, physically, emotionally to see like how much we're capable of.
23:38.87
ahealthypush
And I think it can be helpful.
23:39.31
Annie
Yeah.
23:40.52
ahealthypush
you know it sort of Maybe a tidbit for people is like ah follow some people on social that motivate you that are doing some scary shit like it's that's what I do that's the majority of like if you go to my Facebook and look at my followers it's either therapists people in the mental health space or people who are doing really scary stuff and that helps to motivate me and keep me going with like pushing myself so that can you know that's helpful too I think and using social media is like a fun uh like not anxiety producing thing like it's so much better that way
24:07.47
Annie
Yeah.
24:15.11
Annie
were Yeah, no totally.
24:19.37
ahealthypush
Yeah.
24:19.59
Annie
Well, um our next question is another one kind of about fear. Obviously, it's, how do I not feel afraid while driving with my kids?
24:25.15
ahealthypush
and
24:29.80
ahealthypush
Yeah, OK. Even if you don't have kids, this applies.
24:32.73
Annie
Yeah.
24:34.42
ahealthypush
Because really, this question is, how do I not feel afraid while driving?
24:38.93
Annie
Yeah.
24:39.01
ahealthypush
I don't care if it's, how do I not feel afraid while driving as a passenger? How do I not feel afraid driving as the driver? How do I not feel afraid as driving with my kids?
24:44.92
Annie
oh
24:47.62
ahealthypush
The goal is never to not be afraid. like If you are feeling really anxious, if you're feeling a panic attack, you're going to feel afraid. That's how our bodies are wired. That's normal. so It's never like, I'm going to take the fear out of it. I am just trying to get better at allowing the fear to hold space and to be here.
25:07.46
ahealthypush
while I'm doing the thing. So yeah, you don't want to feel scared. You don't want your kids to feel scared. But the truth, the reality rate is we can feel scared. Others can feel scared and still be safe at the same time.
25:23.76
ahealthypush
So, you're probably resisting holding back, right? Either because you don't want to be embarrassed, you don't want to scare the person that you're with, um you don't want to be more uncomfortable, but like actually allowing yourself to feel and go there and be with that stuff as uncomfortable as it is, is going to be so much more helpful than trying to resist from feeling because I know like my thing right was My big thing was driving as a passenger. I didn't ever want anyone to see me feeling anxious or panicking, like even people that I was super close with. And I had to be like realistic at some point or you and say, Shannon, like people you've got to let people see it. like We can't keep doing this. This is not helpful. So like let whatever is happening, like just let it be. So I would just remind you, sort of challenge you on this one.
26:15.01
ahealthypush
We don't need to not be afraid. We need to get better at letting ourselves feel what we're feeling, letting it show. And you're never going to, you know, it's just a worst case scenario thinking, like, what if I feel so afraid?
26:28.56
ahealthypush
What if my kids feel so afraid and then something really bad happens? Your kids are always safe with you, always. And I, it's like what you were saying, right?
26:36.26
Annie
yeah
26:37.63
ahealthypush
You have so much of an awareness. You have sort of an overabundance of awareness.
26:42.06
Annie
Yeah.
26:42.68
ahealthypush
You're not going to let anything happen to them. But it's just that I need to control it.
26:45.34
Annie
yeah
26:47.27
ahealthypush
I need to make sure. No, you don't.
26:49.32
Annie
Yeah.
26:49.36
ahealthypush
You don't. Like you've, you've got it.
26:50.18
Annie
Yeah.
26:51.47
ahealthypush
You've got it, but you've got to let yourself see that.
26:54.32
Annie
Exactly. And it's like, you're still a good parent. If you feel anxious while you're driving, that's another thing.
26:57.18
ahealthypush
Oh, 1000%.
26:59.84
Annie
Like, I i don't have kids, but I can imagine
27:02.32
ahealthypush
Some of the best, I mean, you know, like being in the panic to peace program, I've worked with so many moms, literally the best freaking moms that I've ever met, like,
27:08.06
Annie
Yeah. yeah
27:12.56
ahealthypush
best parents and you're like looking at them and they are just beating themselves up so much and you're like, Oh my God, you're amazing though, like your capacity for being able to feel what you're feeling to hold space for them.
27:15.34
Annie
Yeah.
27:21.65
Annie
hello
27:26.79
ahealthypush
to be able to show up, like all of that. like We don't give ourselves enough credit. So yeah, if you're a mom, a dad, caregiver, and you're struggling, like ah one of my biggest things right is for you to let yourself feel, but to allow others to see it because it's also going to help them with their emotions. It's gonna show your kids, like you can feel scared and mom or dad or you know whoever can get through it. like Your kids need to see you experiencing hard stuff To see that like they can also feel it and it's not too big or scary and they can work through it too So, you know, I think that's one of and my mom and I have had so many conversations But i'm like that's one of the things like looking back i'm like, of course we could all do things
27:59.59
Annie
Yeah.
28:12.37
ahealthypush
differently. like we We all live and learn. But I told my mom, i was like i I wish you would have just showed more of what you were going through. I wish I had seen more of it. I wish like you demonstrated for me like how to process the emotions And I think this is one of the biggest challenges.
28:30.22
ahealthypush
Being a parent is trying not to hide everything from your kids, trying to always make it seem like everything's fine.
28:31.71
Annie
Hmm.
28:37.24
ahealthypush
We're fine. You know, I'm not feeling scared. I'm not, you know, my daughter sees it all the time and she'll look at me and be like, Mama, are you crying?
28:44.28
Annie
Hmm.
28:44.83
ahealthypush
Mama, are you sad? Mama, are you? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I am. And here's why.
28:48.29
Annie
Yeah.
28:48.68
ahealthypush
And like, I think that's so valuable to teach your kids that we can feel big things and be okay.
28:51.97
Annie
No.
28:55.52
Annie
yeah that's such a good point because yeah and then now it's like your daughter when she feels like sad or upset she's like okay like i'm not crazy like my mom feels this way too that's such a good point i love that wow oh
29:02.33
ahealthypush
right Yeah, and it's okay. But she's definitely a little bit judgy with it because she'll be like, Mama, are you crying? And she'll be like, you know, this look and like, okay, leave me alone.
29:13.30
ahealthypush
Like, yes, I'm crying. And it's fine. And I'll say to her, right like, it's okay to cry. Like, it makes sense that I'm crying right now. I'm a little bit sad, or I'm a little bit upset.
29:20.23
Annie
yeah
29:20.59
ahealthypush
Whatever it is, like, I don't hide that stuff from her. There's no good that's gonna come from that.
29:25.07
Annie
Yeah.
29:25.06
ahealthypush
But obviously to like age-appropriate. I mean she's only six I'm not going to be crying and telling her exactly everything that I'm going through but I'm gonna say like yeah, I'm a mess and I'm crying, you know, I Whatever it is.
29:37.05
ahealthypush
But yeah age-appropriate.
29:37.80
Annie
Yeah.
29:38.37
ahealthypush
It was helpful ah isn't I Feel like
29:39.79
Annie
Yeah, that's so good. I love that so much. um Our next question is, how do you build up if you've been avoiding driving for a while?
29:52.79
ahealthypush
We all sort of want like this um hack. I don't know. like Tell me the thing right that's going to make this easier.
29:57.50
Annie
Yeah.
30:02.07
ahealthypush
We know. like ah I'll tell my students all the time. It's not that you don't know. It's that you're scared. right and And we know the steps.
30:07.93
Annie
Yeah.
30:09.74
ahealthypush
We often know what we need to do. we We're not stuck. what's in front of us is just really overwhelming and scary. So I always say start with small steps, right?
30:17.09
Annie
yeah
30:20.53
ahealthypush
So freaking tiny. I don't care if it means you getting in your car and literally sitting there, not even driving anywhere. Like if you have such a level of avoidance of driving, just sit in your freaking car.
30:33.23
ahealthypush
just, I don't want to say just cause I know how hard it is.
30:33.36
Annie
yeah.
30:36.40
ahealthypush
I know leaving my house and driving two minutes from my house. I would literally always have a panic attack because it was like, I'm leaving my house. Like I'm leaving that safe zone, shitsitting the fan.
30:44.74
Annie
yeah
30:47.43
ahealthypush
Um, it was me causing it, but you know, I think allowing yourself to go there and take a ah little drive a minute, like not even, I don't even care.
30:56.05
Annie
yeah.
30:57.24
ahealthypush
Take someone with you, do it by yourself. If you feel like that's more manageable. Um, take stuff with you. Like I don't care, but let yourself go there.
31:05.37
Annie
yeah
31:07.09
ahealthypush
Like let yourself go there. And you know, I, um, I had a client and she's been on my podcast. So, and she, we talked about that. So it's, it's fine sharing it, but like she had such a level of avoidance of driving.
31:18.71
ahealthypush
Like she worked from home. She got groceries delivered, like didn't really have to go anywhere and do anything. And she really convinced herself, like, I don't need to drive. Like to heck with that.
31:27.46
Annie
Yeah.
31:27.93
ahealthypush
I don't even care about driving. But we do that, right? When anxiety is in the mix. Like, I don't even care about that. I don't even want to do that. It's like, oh, but but really, is that honest?
31:34.04
Annie
Yeah.
31:37.12
Annie
Mm-hmm.
31:37.19
ahealthypush
um And so she went out. I was like, just sit in your car. I don't even want you to go anywhere. Just sit in your car. And she's like, I went out. I sat in my car. I think the funniest part about it was that she was like, the battery was literally dead because I hadn't driven the car until
31:50.07
Annie
Yes, that happened to me once too.
31:52.83
ahealthypush
Oh my God. It's amazing. But she was like, okay, I had that fixed. She was like, maybe this is a sign from the universe that I just shouldn't be driving. I was like, no, come on.
31:59.83
Annie
No. Yeah.
32:01.56
ahealthypush
But she's like, I got that fixed. And then I sat in my car and she was like, okay, this is so silly. Like we're going to drive. Like we're going to go somewhere. And she's like, I literally went several blocks.
32:12.37
ahealthypush
And I was okay. Like anxiety wasn't even like coming. Just like, what the heck? But it's just that we have such a level of avoidance for so long. We make it so big, so freaking scary. We tell ourselves all the stories. We buy into them and we don't let ourselves see.
32:30.20
ahealthypush
And a lot of times when you let yourself see, especially with anticipat anticipatory anxiety, you see it's not nearly as bad as what your brain told you it would look like.
32:37.25
Annie
Yeah.
32:40.12
ahealthypush
So tiniest steps. I don't care if it's just sitting in your car, let yourself go there. Like even if it's not sitting in your car, if that's too much for you, okay? Like picture yourself sitting in your car. Like picture yourself walking to your car, sitting in your car, being in your car.
32:50.45
Annie
Yeah.
32:53.90
ahealthypush
Like there's always small steps that you can take that you can build on to help get you there.
32:59.88
Annie
Yeah. And I love that you said it's like, there's no hack or anything. It's just like consistent action in whatever form that looks like. It's not fun and it takes time, but like that's the key right there.
33:10.83
Annie
So, uh, and our final question is what is your best tip for overcoming driving anxiety?
33:11.73
ahealthypush
Yeah.
33:19.16
ahealthypush
Okay. i Buckle up. No pun intended. It has nothing to do with the car. I always encourage so much of the healing happens outside of the car.
33:32.72
ahealthypush
Yes, you have to face, right? Yes, you have to do the things. That is a big part of it. But the bigger part is actually letting yourself feel, which happens in your everyday life. you know all When you're struggling with anxiety, we typically have so many coping mechanisms. We're all walking around like trying not to feel We're staying busy, we're avoiding, we're seeking reassurance, we're doing all the things and we're just not letting ourselves be with our feelings.
34:01.36
ahealthypush
So then you get in the car, something that's very triggering and some, some ah you know, a place where you've experienced anxiety and panic and before and of course shit is going to hit the fan because you don't even let yourself feel ever.
34:01.48
Annie
Mm hmm.
34:12.58
Annie
Mm hmm.
34:14.67
ahealthypush
So I always say the more you can focus on accepting your feelings in your day-to-day, taking healthy steps in your day-to-day, being more present in your day-to-day, these skills will come in handy when you actually get in the car. And this is like in anything that I teach, people will be like, okay, like what about exposures? What what do I do? Tell me the steps.
34:39.36
ahealthypush
That is like so far into anything that I teach because there's so much that has to come before that. And two, I want to say here, I think a lot of what we talked have talked about is like get in the car. right You have to like face it and let yourself feel. That is like half of it.
34:57.53
ahealthypush
There's a whole nother half where it is taking healthy steps outside of the car, really like looking at how you respond to anxiety. like What are the choices, the decisions and that you're making in your dayto- day to day? Do you have the support?
35:13.82
ahealthypush
all those things are just as important as get in the car and like do the thing because they always tell people if it were that simple right to say okay Annie go get in the freaking car and we're gonna do it you know relentlessly for a month and then you're gonna be cured but nobody would be walking around with anxiety so that's not it there's so much more to the equation so I don't ever want people feeling like
35:33.41
Annie
yeah.
35:38.92
ahealthypush
I've done that, you know, I've got I do drive and I keep having anxiety and this was me I didn't have really an avoidance of driving I drove all the freaking time but there is always anxiety and panic there and that was because there was so like I wasn't letting myself feel I wasn't taking care of myself outside of you know doing hard things there was just so much that I wasn't putting attention and focus on so Yeah letting yourself
35:48.58
Annie
yeah.
36:00.51
Annie
Yeah. Yeah.
36:04.99
ahealthypush
feel in your day to day, taking healthy steps in your day to day. Like that's my best tip honestly, like, and don't make it so much about the driving and getting in the car and doing the things and oh my God, it's just like, it adds so much pressure and overwhelming anxiety to the mix.
36:17.35
Annie
Yeah. This does, I mean hey, that's the best advice though, honestly.
36:20.59
ahealthypush
Yeah.
36:23.52
Annie
And it takes time, but it's possible.
36:23.55
ahealthypush
Yeah. i wish I always tell people, like I want to give you something. I wish I could give you something.
36:28.77
Annie
Yeah.
36:29.28
ahealthypush
Here, just take this. or like I can sprinkle this on you, and it's going to make everything easier. But truly, when you commit consistently to taking the small steps, and you really you really commit to yourself, things do get easier.
36:43.69
ahealthypush
And this like eight it kind all of it comes with more ease. And then you're going to look back and be like, how did this even? When did this happen? like I don't even remember.
36:54.15
ahealthypush
um Yeah, so I would say, you know, if people want to see like how I recommend you like respond to anxiety, look at my reels on Instagram, like go to my me verse brain reels, because you will literally see me driving like in the car, in all the different instances in traffic, um before you're going into places, like driving on the highway, I have so many
36:54.38
Annie
yeah
37:21.94
ahealthypush
reels where I talk through like what my anxious brain is saying versus what I'm, you know, how I'm responding. And those can be really helpful to show you like, okay, this might be a bit more of a healthy approach.
37:33.68
Annie
Yeah. Yeah.
37:33.94
ahealthypush
And then I would also say, of course, I have a whole class on driving anxiety. And that's like where I actually teach you the practical simple like here's what we're going to do that's actually going to give you the relief. And it's not the breathing techniques and the meditation and the journaling and the ice cubes and all the stuff that you know might give us some short-term relief. It's like, this is the stuff that's going to give you the long-term. like I get in the car and then I can go pick up my kids. I can go on the trips. I can just go to the appointment and like it's not so dang hard. So that masterclass, I mean,
38:07.76
ahealthypush
I'll put the link to my Instagram, the link to the masterclass. It's called Overcoming Driving or Freedom from Driving Anxiety, I think. Um, and you can get that class for literally 60 bucks right now using code class 60 at checkout.
38:20.53
ahealthypush
And I highly recommend that if you're somebody who's like, I want, tell me what to do. Um, it's less of me really telling you what to do and me encouraging you and supporting you and guiding you, but it works.
38:31.40
Annie
yeah it does.
38:33.01
ahealthypush
Oh, all right. This has been so good, Annie. I feel like this is the longest one we've ever done, but like we needed, yeah, it's been fun and like we needed to do driving anxiety justice.
38:37.72
Annie
No, it's been fun.
38:42.53
ahealthypush
So.
38:43.42
Annie
Yes.
38:43.74
ahealthypush
I still appreciate you coming back on and I know I will see you again soon. and
38:47.54
Annie
Yes, thanks for having me.
