Anxiety Success Stories: Jessica's Random Panic Attack, to Quickly Limiting and Avoiding, to Doing Big Things
- Shannon Jackson
- Dec 29, 2024
- 45 min read
Updated: Dec 30, 2024
On this week's episode of a Healthy Push Podcast, I was excited to talk to another one of my Panic to Peace students, Jessica!
Jess first signed up for Panic to Peace in January 2023, about a year ago, and completed my 10-week program in March 2023. It’s been several months since Jess and I have spoken, and it’s always a pleasure to catch up with one of my former students. I think you’ll enjoy hearing Jess’ story, insights, and experiences!
Jessica’s Sudden Experiences With Panic and Anxiety
Before 2023 and before Jess signed up for Panic to Peace, you’ll hear her explain that she wasn’t exactly an anxious person, and had never had any real notable experiences with anxiety throughout her life. “I didn’t even know what a panic attack was”, she explains. In fact, the first time she experienced what can be interpreted as a panic attack, she was simply walking in a mall, shopping, when all of a sudden she felt an intense wave of lightheadedness and dizziness as if she was about to faint. In the aftermath, she said something that struck me as very common in people experiencing panic and anxiety for the first time: “I didn’t know what was happening”.
Common Symptoms of Panic Attacks:
Physical | Mental |
Racing Pulse/Difficulty Breathing | Sudden Wave of Discomfort |
Trembling | Fear of Losing Control or Going Crazy |
Dizziness/Lightheadedness | Feelings of Dread, Doom, or Danger |
Sweating/Chills/Tingling | Racing Thoughts/What-If Thinking |
Nausea or Abdominal Distress | Feeling Detached (DP/DR) |
After her initial experience passed, the panic symptoms, unfortunately, kept recurring, to the point Jess started analyzing her life, wondering what could be causing these undefined, uncomfortable feelings. As time went on and the feelings persisted, Jess was feeling more and more helpless, turning to her inner circle, doctors, therapists, and anyone who could possibly help interpret these horrible feelings and episodes she was experiencing. After research and conversation, Jess came to the conclusion that she was experiencing panic attacks. It’s an important moment of clarity when you can finally define and put a name to what exactly is going on. However, it’s also when the real work begins!
If you’re currently struggling with panic attacks and you want to learn how to start responding to the symptoms and discomfort in a healthy way so that you can experience lots more peace and freedom, check out my mini-course on Overcoming the Symptoms & Panic Attacks.
Medication: Exploring Options
When health issues become persistent and or unresolved, medications are often one of the main approaches deployed by doctors and therapists alike. And while certain medications are helpful and even necessary for many people, when it comes to anxiety and panic, proceed with caution in regards to how you’re utilizing them.
Can medication be helpful for people struggling with anxiety and panic? Absolutely. But, it’s important to understand that medications should not be viewed as a “cure-all”, or a singular approach to addressing anxiety. Ideally, view medication as a supplemental solution. In other words, it can be another tool in your anxiety toolbox, but avoid making it the only tool; Something Jess reiterates in our conversation. Jess didn’t start taking medication consistently until she was nearing the end of the Panic to Peace program, and has a healthy perspective toward it. She admits, had she tried the medication route earlier, before she equipped herself with the healthy approaches learned in the program, the medication wouldn’t be nearly as effective. Everyone is different, and it’s important to recognize and explore your options when faced with anxiety and panic. Put in the work, and find your healthy balance!
Panic to Peace: Taking Control
Jess started applying advice she received from therapists, one tip being to carry around an “anxiety backpack" consisting of things like mints, ice packs, etc., to help distract her mind and ease her panic symptoms in the moment. While some of the advice and coping mechanisms seemed to be somewhat effective momentarily, Jess was still experiencing anxiety and panic, so she continued searching for long-term relief and improvement. (And we all know my stance on these types of short-term, surface-level solutions!)
Jess eventually came across a Healthy Push Podcast, and after finding the episodes and topics helpful and easily digestible, she signed up for my Panic to Peace program. She was at a point where she felt she was hitting rock bottom, and that these panic symptoms would simply never improve… she was stuck with them. She started to struggle with self-confidence, putting herself down, feeling like she was the problem. These are both extremely common feelings I address and offer solutions to throughout my program, including:
How to respond to your anxious thoughts, symptoms, panic attacks, and fears in a healthy way so that they stop showing up
How to face your fears without it being so hard, and without forcing yourself to do things you don't even want to do
How to heal without becoming a mindfulness guru or practicing a bunch of breathing or grounding techniques
How to trust and believe in yourself so that you aren't looking outside of yourself for saving
How to keep taking action even when things feel hard
How to start betting on yourself, because YOU are the magic thing that is going to lead you to recovery!
Nearly a year after completing the Panic to Peace program and having a couple of one-on-one sessions with me, we’re both happy to report that Jess is in a much better place with anxiety and panic. She has learned to trust herself again and the symptoms and panic attacks have lessened incredibly - so much so that she took a 5-hour road trip to her cabin in Canada… by herself! This is something that she thought she’d never be able to do again, as just driving around her small town felt extremely hard and nearly impossible for months.I was also so happy to hear that Jess found the sense of community within Panic to Peace to be very helpful. Sometimes it can take realizing that other people are currently going through or have gone through similar experiences/symptoms, and hearing about how they’ve dealt with them. You are never alone in your journey with anxiety!
I can’t thank Jess enough for joining me and sharing her experiences. Being comfortable and vulnerable enough to sit down and talk about it extensively illustrates some of the major strides she’s taken in her life, and in her relationship with anxiety. Be sure to listen to the full episode for the full context of Jess’ story and progress!
“I don't even know how I found Panic to Peace or Healthy Push. I have no idea how I even found it, but I'm so, so grateful that I did.”
Feeling like you've tried everything but you're still struggling with lots of anxious thoughts, symptoms, panic attacks, and fears? Take my FREE 60-minute masterclass today and learn 5 shifts that will actually help you to overcome anxiety, panic disorder, and agoraphobia. And I promise, you won't hear any of the usual stuff from me - like doing breathing exercises, grounding practices, cutting out caffeine, and doing more exposures. Let's get you the peace and freedom you deserve without it being so hard!
Check out my masterclasses here and start experiencing lots more peace, joy, & freedom!
Transcript
00:02.00
Shannon Jackson
All right, we're having one of my favorite conversations to have on the podcast. I have another Panic 2 Peace student here with me. Her name is Jess, and I am so excited to you just chat with her and for you to hear her story and get some insights. So Jess, welcome to a Healthy Push podcast.
00:20.70
Jess
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
00:23.14
Shannon Jackson
Yeah, this is going to be so good. So Jess actually took the live version of Panic 2 Peace and I think we were trying to remember. I know everyone signed up late January 2024. I think we didn't start until like early February. um And then we ended like March late March or early April.
00:42.77
Shannon Jackson
and we're now recording December, 2024. So it's been several months, so I'm really excited to just dive in and hear like how things have been going. But before we go there, just tell us a little bit about you.
00:56.85
Jess
Yeah, sure. So my name is Jessica. I am 36 years old. i am I grew up in a small town in Ontario, Canada. And then um I have my parents. I got a sister. I love animals. I've always been super outgoing, loving to travel, be outside.
01:17.80
Jess
uh 10 years ago I moved out to Vancouver, BC, Canada uh didn't know anybody like literally one person and just moved out here um and yeah that's been 10 years now and I'm still just loving all the hiking going out in the mountains um right now currently I have a boyfriend of four years almost um we own a cabin up in like northern BC that we spend a lot of our time at and yeah I just love I'm always a go on the go person that's just always wanting to have fun.
01:55.13
Shannon Jackson
I love that. I think we're definitely going to talk about the cabin too, which I'm excited to get to. um You live in such a gorgeous area and I'm very jealous. ah So let's just start. like When did anxiety pop up for you? Because I think your story is not maybe the norm that we hear on the podcast of like I've sort of always been struggling. I feel like I've always had anxiety and panic ever since I can remember.
02:20.79
Shannon Jackson
Yours isn't quite that, so let's talk about when it started for you.
02:27.37
Jess
so I, like you said, would never have described myself as an anxious person. I didn't even know really what panic attacks were. I've had friends that have had dealt with that. And now being on this side, I feel I have a whole different type of respect for them, but I didn't really know much about any of that stuff. um And yeah, I was at the mall on a Saturday and I had my Starbucks and I was shopping and it was just my mall in town, like five minutes from my condo.
02:56.51
Jess
And i all of a sudden, I was walking in the hallway that like wasn't super busy. um And I don't know, i would nothing interesting was happening. But all of a sudden, I just literally got, if I think about it, I think of like super bright lights and then really dizzy. And then I feel like I was going to faint like literally out of absolute nowhere. like I felt before that, the day was not memorable like at all.
03:25.98
Jess
And I kind of remember hearing somebody in the store like say, are you okay? But I don't think they were talking to me, but like maybe they were and I'll never know. And that was weird. And I hightailed it. I just like ran out of the mall. Again, I wasn't done and I just left. And I remember I called my best friend.
03:45.65
Jess
And I'm super close with her, but i I didn't say, I was like, Oh, I don't feel great. But like people say that all the time. Like I didn't, I could not articulate what was happening. I did not know. But I just knew I wanted to not be by myself at that time. So I called her. I remember walking around like the sides of the mall, like all the way around to find my car. And then still feeling just the same super panicky light-headed, dizzy, and then I'm driving now and so because I just wanted to drive I guess and leave and then ah I stayed on the film with her and then I did eventually come down to normalness but then I still was like what in the world was that um and I don't really even remember much of the rest of that day I don't know
04:19.39
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
04:37.00
Jess
uh what else it like what happened i think i and knowing me i would have been like what was that we'll pretend that didn't happen um so that's probably what i did there um so that sucked a lot that was i was kind of like what was like all day i was just like what was that it was it came out of like literal nowhere yeah
04:43.26
Shannon Jackson
Mm. Yeah.
04:57.67
Shannon Jackson
And for it to happen at the mall, right? Like of all places. Like what?
05:03.02
Jess
Yeah, it didn't make any sense at all at the time.
05:03.36
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
05:08.18
Jess
And then I was in the process of moving, which we'll get into. ah But um I was getting ready to clean up my condo and move out and move in with my boyfriend.
05:19.66
Jess
And I remember the next day I had to go into a like a pharmacy store and to get some cleaning stuff. And I wasn't thinking anything of what happened the previous day.
05:31.19
Jess
And I walked in i maybe made it like two steps and i literally got this like whoosh feeling and i turned around and like ran to my car And I, that this one was probably worse.
05:44.56
Jess
I felt, I felt trapped in my car. I did not know what to do. I was so stuck.
05:48.70
Shannon Jackson
a
05:50.12
Jess
I was like, if someone's going to have to come get me from here, I can't i do anything right now. I can't literally do, I was completely stuck, which is weird.
05:56.53
Shannon Jackson
Wow.
05:59.66
Jess
Cause that didn't, that's kind of different than what had happened the day before. But, um, yes, so quickly.
06:04.68
Shannon Jackson
It sort of just builds pretty quickly, right? Like, oh my gosh, this is happening. Yeah. ah How long ago?
06:10.87
Jess
So quickly.
06:11.72
Shannon Jackson
I'm curious. Like how many years ago was this?
06:14.16
Jess
then was a this was only in twenty This was May So even now, only like a year and a half ago.
06:24.56
Shannon Jackson
Whoa. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. So you're like, I'm going to get to my car, which is such a normal response when we experience anxiety, panic, even if we don't know what it is, right? It's like you're hit with this wave of not feeling good. And it's like, uh, let me get out, right? Let me get home. Let me just get out of here.
06:48.72
Shannon Jackson
So it's such a normal response that you get in your car and you're like, oh, heck no. like I still feel this, right? And I'm still feeling it and it's not going away. What what do you do?
06:57.25
Jess
Yeah. I ah waited, I don't know what I did for a couple minutes there, and then I called ah my girlfriend that, and not the one I had called the day before, but my girlfriend that I'm really close with, she actually moved out here with me like the year after I did from back home.
07:15.82
Jess
and she had dealt, I don't know, this what she's my second best friend so I would have just called her anyways but as it turns out she has dealt with it anxiety and panic attacks before years and years and years ago anyways I called her and just told her everything and she was like dude you're totally having a panic attack right now and I was like what like she's like you're fine you're fine she's like I'll stay with you as long as you want you don't have to drive but when you feel like driving and she offered to like she offered to do anything she was like but I think that you will be okay I'll just stay on the phone with you she just encouraged me and I remember just going home and I went like the weirdest way I wouldn't take the main road which like isn't even a main road really it's not like a highway or anything but I went home like the most weirdest way just to
08:00.89
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
08:05.70
Jess
I don't even know in case something happened, I guess, that I would just be on like a little residential side road rather than somewhere busy or an intersection.
08:08.62
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
08:14.56
Jess
And then I got home and was relieved. And then I was like, okay, few, I'm home. I made it. I survived. Yeah.
08:25.77
Shannon Jackson
Oh my gosh. Okay. So when all of this, you said kind of like maybe alluded to the fact that you know now why this popped up. I'm curious to hear about that. So it sounds like you had some change going on, like probably a big life event, like moving in with your boyfriend, moving. Like that's that's a lot. Do you look back now and you're like, oh, it kind of makes sense why the anxiety popped up? Or you're still like, what the heck?
08:54.01
Jess
yeah yes and no like you if i had to look at my life and think when i would have had a panic attack you would have thought it would have been when i moved here without knowing 4 000 kilometers away from my parents um where i didn't know anyone when i was 25 like that would have been the time to have a panic attack thank god i didn't because that i can't imagine that because i would uh would have just moved back home i'm sure but um
09:03.99
Shannon Jackson
yeah.
09:14.41
Shannon Jackson
yeah.
09:18.95
Jess
so So I don't know. In a way, yes. You get used to things that you're in, though, because I remember talking about it when it was happening. or Maybe on one of our panic to peace chats or something.
09:31.16
Jess
And I had said, yeah, I am moving in with my boyfriend, but that's a good thing. Like I was excited. He is excited. But he is he does have two kids.
09:38.63
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
09:40.40
Jess
He had kids young in a previous marriage. So he's got like a 18 and 19 year old, I think it was at the time. So it was weird, like I am about to move in with into um my boyfriend's house where there's like kids, which I don't have kids. There are things that were weird. And then another layer is, um I won't go get into it, but his work, my work and his work, do you have a bit of a, ah there's, what would you call it?
10:09.71
Jess
the conflict of interest for us to be together and we are together.
10:11.27
Shannon Jackson
Oh, gotcha.
10:13.71
Jess
So I don't know if that was like another little layer on it because I actually hadn't told my work that I was with him.
10:13.84
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
10:21.20
Jess
So if I had to guess it maybe had to do with that. But yeah, i in some ways I can see that there yeah there were some stuff going on.
10:24.29
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
10:28.25
Jess
But in the grand scheme of things, I didn't think I still find it a bit weird to be honest, but I don't spend much time thinking about it because it kind of just is what it is for that.
10:33.97
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
10:38.78
Shannon Jackson
Yeah, for sure. You're absolutely right. And I think sometimes we want to do that digging of trying to analyze and figure out why, like why the heck did this happen? Why did this start? um I think there are some things that, some obvious things, right? Like our bodies don't differentiate between good stress and bad stress. So it's like, even though you were moving in and you're really like, you know, ah in a healthy relationship and this is exciting. um It's a lot of newness and that type of stress, our bodies are just like,
11:07.97
Shannon Jackson
Okay, this is a bit overwhelming. So maybe, right, the work stuff, the the relationship, the move.
11:10.25
Jess
Yeah. Like age.
11:14.33
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
11:14.29
Jess
maybe like when I if I did that move at 25 now at 35 maybe that would have done me and also
11:21.02
Shannon Jackson
Yeah, yeah. It it is interesting right because we look at one more younger sometimes and the things that we've done. like I hear so many people say, I used to travel the world. I used to solo travel. I used to get on planes. I i did this. I did that like you. I moved to a place that I was so unfamiliar with by myself and like I was fine. and All of a sudden, right I was in a mall or I was driving and it hit me. Sometimes it is like pretty random, but usually there's some stressors, some life things that are going on that sort of make this.
11:52.01
Shannon Jackson
happen. And then like you, right, you can very quickly become stuck on it and like, oh shit, what is happening? And then try your best, right, to prevent yourself from having panic attacks. So after that, what happened? Did you find yourself starting to like, not want to do things, not want to drive, not want to go places?
12:14.75
Jess
Yeah, it was immediate. Like, um I remember when I went to work that week after the weekend, I couldn't even, I'm in like an office building with hallways and whatnot, obviously.
12:28.58
Jess
I couldn't walk barely to the bathroom and to get water, which is weird because why with the walking? But again, I guess it just didn't think it felt safe, I suppose.
12:41.36
Jess
And I would just, I drank a lot of water and I like wasn't drinking water because I didn't want to get up and have to
12:46.68
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
12:47.41
Jess
a Like I was being super weird. Driving sucked. I do have a pretty small commute um to work. It's like 15-20 minutes. um But that was brutal for actually months and months and months that that was terrible for. But I remember um by pulling my boss into my office and I just looked at her and got like all teary-eyed and I was like something is so wrong with me I don't know and I was just I just kind of started crying and crazily enough she dealt with panic attacks it's insane how many people have at one point in their life or the other once you talk about it and I just remember her saying to me
13:23.45
Shannon Jackson
yeah.
13:30.28
Jess
I know you want to go home, but that would be the worst thing you could do. So you got you got to stick it out and going home would be the absolute worst. So come hang out with me or do whatever you need to do, but the absolute worst thing you could do would be to go home right now.
13:38.73
Shannon Jackson
Oh wow.
13:44.66
Jess
And I didn't ever not go to work. I went to work every single day, even though I thought I was going to die. And I would be crying and I would wake up already. uh panicking like just a second i even woke up i was already like elevated with everything i remember i when that ah this all first happened i didn't uh have any coffee right away i was like oh okay i won't have caffeine um i do use like a nicotine vape so i just didn't vape for like three days i'm like okay this will that's probably what the problem is
13:57.51
Shannon Jackson
yeah
14:16.41
Shannon Jackson
but Yeah, yeah. I'll get rid of like the quick things right that I can think of that might make this stop.
14:18.09
Jess
ah
14:22.00
Jess
right and then now I'm just like not having coffee not having my nicotine and having panic attacks so so yeah but no it was quick and hard and I talked to my boyfriend about it but I still like I didn't say anything to anyone the first time in the mall because I was just ignoring that. And then after my friend said what she said, um, I talked to my boyfriend and he was, he's good about it, but he doesn't, he's like, Oh, okay. What should I do? Like he's good, but not good all at the same time. Um, whereas like my girlfriends, especially
15:00.50
Jess
I'm lucky enough to have a couple of girlfriends that have dealt with this, obviously know exactly what to say. So um yeah, it just went really bad, really quick. I didn't leave my house. I would go to work and that's basically it. ah My boyfriend was working out of town at the time and I would like maybe make it to the grocery store once a week.
15:23.24
Jess
and get there. But that was an ordeal. I remember my girlfriend suggested a book that's about panic attacks by Claire, I think her name's Claire Weeks. That's really good. So I read that, like I'm just sitting there reading it. I'm like, okay, I got this. I've read the book. I'm going to be okay now that I've read it.
15:45.58
Jess
on Just trying to do anything I could to like have that feeling not be there But I just would go home go to work and go home lay in bed um And that's not like me like previously said I was like my mom's like can you sit still or just hang out at home?
15:55.98
Shannon Jackson
Hmm.
16:03.00
Jess
Like I would never be home I would always be gone I'd be going and doing all sorts of stuff and I just didn't do anything for like probably a couple of weeks maybe and then I um went to the doctor because I was like okay I need to figure out what this is that's wrong with me so I had a bunch I had them do blood work they sent me to like a hormone specialist um that I did have really really really high cortisol but of course I would because the day I had that appointment I got to work and then I freaked out about driving from work to the blood place
16:40.49
Shannon Jackson
Mm.
16:42.36
Jess
And I didn't want to. I called my sister and I was going to call an Uber. and My sister's in Ontario. I don't know why I called her. But I was like panicking, thinking, I can't drive these like five minutes to go get my blood drawn. just red date like Well, not ridiculous. it was It was real at the time. But I just couldn't do anything. I literally just got completely stuck.
17:02.87
Shannon Jackson
Yeah. I'm so glad that you caught yourself and said that, right? Because I think we we do beat ourselves up and we're like, this is so ridiculous. like I'm just driving like a little bit down the road. But when you have experienced you know panic several times and you are obviously not wanting to feel that, you're kind of on this sensitive, like sensitized hyper-alert, like, how can I make sure right that I don't feel this way?
17:28.80
Shannon Jackson
And and like you, many people, right you quickly start to analyze everything and and restrict and limit and all this stuff.
17:37.09
Jess
Yeah.
17:37.37
Shannon Jackson
And of course, all of that just sort of feeds the anxiety even more, which it's hard not to. like You're going to do some of that because you're human. But I just want to highlight how crazy that you share this with your boss, which is something a lot of people would not do.
17:45.88
Jess
Absolutely.
17:53.52
Shannon Jackson
like People would hide it. right like Nobody can know. i don't I don't want to tell anyone. and she has personal experience and shares with you some really good wisdom of like, Hey, no, I know you want to leave, but that's actually not going to be helpful. Like what a, what a piece, right? That could have set you in a very different direction had you not had that conversation. Like that's so wild.
18:21.41
Jess
Yeah, I'm like I feel very lucky that I I would hate I couldn't imagine if being somebody to go through this By themselves and not have somebody to talk to I honestly can't imagine it.
18:29.69
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
18:32.55
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
18:32.52
Jess
I remember ah Being at home one night like in the early stages and being like I don't I if this is what life is like I can see why somebody would want to kill themselves, which is I want to die just saying that right now.
18:52.07
Jess
Like I can't believe I didn't want to.
18:52.39
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
18:54.50
Jess
I didn't think about it or plan it or anything like that. But I was like, Oh yeah, if this is what a normal day is, then this isn't fun. Why would anybody want to be doing this? You couldn't I remember driving, being like, what did I used to think about?
19:04.58
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
19:08.80
Jess
I used to just have, I joke and say like ping pong in my head, like I wasn't thinking anything. I'm just like, do do do do do, driving around.
19:15.88
Shannon Jackson
yeah
19:16.87
Jess
And now I can't, now I'm like white knuckling it with the air conditioner on max in like the winter.
19:20.50
Shannon Jackson
Uh-huh. Yeah, such a common experience.
19:26.60
Jess
Just trying to like can make it down the road.
19:29.48
Shannon Jackson
Yeah. Oh, I remember that. I literally remember like driving in the winter with my windows down. I mean, it's similar to Canada and Maine. It's freezing. And I was like, don't care anything that's going to make me not feel that way.
19:43.07
Shannon Jackson
Okay.
19:43.02
Jess
Yeah.
19:43.31
Shannon Jackson
So you went to the doctors. What happened when you took that step?
19:47.76
Jess
Well, that was frustrating. I don't didn't have a family doctor. The way it works here in Canada, most people would have a family doctor. ah So I just had to go to like a random walking clinic, which kind of already isn't going to be too helpful.
20:02.07
Jess
um They did blood tests. They saw the high cortisol. They thought maybe thyroid issues. I went on like a video call with some doctor and she told me that like my neck was looked big and she thought maybe it was something to do with the thyroid.
20:18.30
Jess
So, but I was excited. I'm like, Oh, okay. That's what this is.
20:21.68
Shannon Jackson
Right.
20:22.30
Jess
I was totally down for whatever it was going to be as long as it was going to be something. And this all took quite a while, like weeks between appointments and whatnot. But, um,
20:33.89
Jess
I remember I had an appointment um and she ended up saying to me, Um, what did she say? She was, she told me that it's not the thyroid. She's not really sure. Um, and then, but she, and I had told her like, I'm pretty sure it's like anxiety things, but like why and make it stop. And she said to me that if my heart rate, she said to print my blood test results. And if I'm sitting down and my heart rate goes over 120 or 130, I think she said, uh, to go to emerge.
21:10.35
Jess
and like bring your has you and i were
21:13.32
Shannon Jackson
Oh my gosh.
21:14.78
Jess
I know, and I wore a Fitbit at the time, and I ended up taking it off shortly after that conversation.
21:17.69
Shannon Jackson
Oh.
21:21.80
Jess
um But I got off the phone and just burst into tears, and my boyfriend was like, felt horrible for me. I'm like, now I'm going to be, my heart rate easily goes up to like 150 if what I'm driving and having a panic attack, 160, it goes through the roof.
21:30.42
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
21:36.69
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
21:36.66
Jess
So why should that lady said that to me, I'll never know. um But yeah, so that didn't really go anywhere. um But well actually, that lady is eventually I opened up to the idea of going on medication and she is the one that started me on like a very, very low medication eventually. But um yeah, nothing really actually panned out from the the doctor thing. I was more At that point, i was taking I had somehow found you and was taking ah Panic to Peace, which was amazing because while I was lucky enough to have some people in my life that have dealt with it, um not so much unlike the agoraphobia. I wish I had never even heard of before this, by the way.
22:21.20
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
22:21.19
Jess
ah But it was so nice to just be around people that felt the exact same. It took away like quite a lot of the stress of thinking that it's just you or there's something really really like it bret brought it down a lot.
22:36.94
Shannon Jackson
Yeah, that's such a cool part, right, of the program is when you actually can see people who are like going through similar things. And I think in year round, it was wild because there were like three or four people also from Canada.
22:47.80
Shannon Jackson
It was like, how did this happen?
22:48.35
Jess
Yeah!
22:49.67
Shannon Jackson
Yeah, that was really cool. But okay, so you started on medication, the medication you felt was helpful.
22:58.19
Jess
Um, yes. Well, when I didn't start the medication like March of this year, as it turned out. So over
23:07.47
Shannon Jackson
yeah
23:09.96
Jess
The fall and winter, I just really didn't do anything. um If I did do things, I would, if say when my boyfriend was home, like he was home for this time, if we were going to restaurants or going to do something, I got in this horrible habit of like having a drink or two.
23:27.52
Jess
before going because then like then you're fine obviously but that actually um like definitely made things worse you're like making it going to be longer to get recover almost because you're putting yourself backwards in a way but um yeah i just kind of spent the winter like not doing anything
23:31.80
Shannon Jackson
Mm hmm.
23:46.01
Jess
And I would just still, I would leave the house being like, okay, I would like, I would listen to, uh, a podcast, um, or in your podcast, like the driving anxiety one.
23:58.45
Jess
I even got to the point where I had to put that on to drive and it helped like like literally listening to your recording about the driving anxiety.
24:03.53
Shannon Jackson
oh wow oh
24:07.72
Jess
I would.
24:08.39
Shannon Jackson
like my master class that's not that yeah that's so funny that's not the first time i've heard that that like i'll literally play in the car it's kind of like a meditation i'm like oh my gosh that's kind of cool
24:10.42
Jess
Yeah. Yeah.
24:13.64
Jess
Hmm.
24:18.36
Jess
Yeah, it helped. I don't think it was like a safety thing. It just, it's so quickly, your mind can go from zero to 100 so quick when you are building yourself up. And sometimes it would let me catch myself and be like, wait, no.
24:33.95
Jess
And I think that's when things kind of started to take a turn.
24:34.40
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
24:36.87
Jess
And I was able to actually think instead of just like, literally freak out and think I'm dying.
24:43.95
Shannon Jackson
Yeah. Instead of just reacting, right? Like you can actually start to slow down. I think, yeah, cause you don't have that awareness initially, right?
24:48.04
Jess
Mm hmm.
24:51.54
Shannon Jackson
When you start experiencing panic, especially like you, it's kind of out of the mill and nowhere. And you're like, Oh gosh, you just very quickly get on this hamster wheel of how can I get rid of this?
25:01.77
Shannon Jackson
What can I do? You're trying all the things you're going, going, going. And then somebody gives you the permission, right? To say, okay, we let's actually slow down.
25:10.74
Jess
yeah like my first I went to I went to a therapist the first summer so probably in like maybe June or July after the panic attack first happened and I went and found a therapist and that just like said she specialized in anxiety so I was like okay and she was like all about she called it like an anxiety backpack and she was like it's totally okay just bring these mints and bring this and do this and
25:11.31
Shannon Jackson
Let's, let's not try.
25:36.60
Jess
blah blah blah and I would I guess she was just trying to make me feel better because at this point I would just go to her office somehow and then like cry at the office and like hysterically and then like leave so maybe at that point she was like okay she just needs to be like I was like absolutely freaking out so maybe she was just trying to make me feel better because it was actually kind of crappy advice but I
25:45.09
Shannon Jackson
Mm. Yeah.
26:00.95
Jess
um you start to do all these the or the ice pack thing you start to do all these kinds of things sometimes though i feel like one thing that your class taught me was not to always make myself feel bad about it sometimes if i can what's like something i eventually did
26:06.22
Shannon Jackson
Yeah?
26:19.07
Shannon Jackson
Mm hmm.
26:23.97
Jess
If I did something I haven't done in months, but fine, I brought the ice pack, then whatever, at least I even got in my car and what went and did it. If I tried, if I went to go do something, I always did it.
26:33.48
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
26:35.85
Jess
It was just like actually getting me like out of the house.
26:39.27
Shannon Jackson
Yeah, I'm glad that you mentioned that because this is such a big um thing. I think that people hear the messaging, right, surrounding recovery is you just got to go do the hard things, right? And you got to not use all of the coping mechanisms and the tools and that you just got to be with anxiety and let yourself feel it. And yes.
26:58.63
Shannon Jackson
Yes, but if you don't yet have the skills, the capacity, the tolerance to be able to handle all those big feelings, we need some coping strategies, right?
27:09.21
Shannon Jackson
We can't just go out the fear and and allow ourselves to feel it if we're not there yet. So you're absolutely right.
27:15.93
Jess
Yeah.
27:17.47
Shannon Jackson
It's in everything that I teach, right? It's not black and white. It's not all or nothing. And if there are things that are going to help you, Yeah, I especially don't love the idea, right? If we're going to take this stuff every day, we're going to take this literal backpack of shit with us just so that we can function.
27:32.13
Jess
Right?
27:33.71
Shannon Jackson
I don't want that.
27:34.99
Jess
No.
27:35.16
Shannon Jackson
um But in these moments where you are, like you said, you're doing things that you haven't done in a while or you're doing something that really ramps up the anxiety. like There are always ways that we can allow ourselves to face those things in a more manageable way.
27:48.80
Shannon Jackson
And it's okay if some coping strategies have to be a part of that for a little bit. That's okay.
27:55.51
Jess
Yeah, no, exactly. Cause yeah, you got to do what you have to do in a way, but even just, I remember you saying taking, take the item with you, but think about it before you use it or like wait five seconds before you actually use it. That one really helped with me. Um, but yeah, I just started. I remember having a my one-on-one with you and I was like, what is going to be rock bottom?
28:21.37
Jess
or something to make me actually stop being like this is probably what I would have said. And you said like, Jess, you I think your rock bottom like was back then when that happened at the mall or whatever.
28:35.64
Jess
And I think that you doing all this work and being aware and whatnot is like you being on the right path. And that I remember stuck with me so much. I like wish I wrote had written that down.
28:45.84
Jess
Well, I guess I kind of did because I remember it. But yeah.
28:48.35
Shannon Jackson
It's it stuck. It really stuck. And i remember like you I remember you reaching out to me and saying how much that resonated. I think we're all sort of waiting for this moment. like When is going to be the enough point? like When am I going to hit rock bottom enough to actually like change? And it's just obviously we so desperately want to feel better. We want that shift. But I think this is like some fantasy that we all hear about.
29:13.12
Shannon Jackson
like People always say, oh, in recovery, I had this this day, this hard moment, this point in which I was just like, all right, enough is enough. I never had that. I don't think that's actually a common experience.
29:22.38
Jess
no
29:23.54
Shannon Jackson
I feel like that's in the movies. But the reality right is you sort of have to recognize maybe the hardest moments have actually already happened.
29:34.17
Shannon Jackson
maybe the worst of the worst has ah actually already happened. I've already felt a ton of anxiety. I've already felt the shittiness of panic. Maybe this doesn't get worse.
29:45.10
Shannon Jackson
Maybe I am actually healing and maybe I am going to continue right to heal and and continue to get better by focusing on today and the steps that I'm going to take right now.
29:57.60
Jess
Exactly.
29:57.83
Shannon Jackson
I'm so glad that resonated.
29:59.54
Jess
Yeah, no, it totally totally did. And from there, I think I I just kind of made it through the winter time, but I did start, uh, in like, yeah, end of January and February, i started your course and funny things that people tell you to do like, Oh meditate and eat healthy.
30:19.00
Jess
It's like, yeah, okay. But I did start to actually care about that kind of stuff more and, uh, just try and I would journal every night and, uh, I wasn't great at meditating, but I would give it a go every now and then.
30:24.86
Shannon Jackson
ye
30:34.11
Jess
um and I just I did find though that the exposure uh I would try and do exposures that what didn't go well for me it was just like if I've even to this day if I don't think about it and I just go do it then I'm literally fine
30:48.73
Shannon Jackson
Yep. Yeah.
30:51.81
Jess
Nothing happens, nothing at all.
30:53.51
Shannon Jackson
yeah
30:53.96
Jess
But the second I am like, oh wait a minute, should I be doing this? Ooh, what if this happens? Then it's gonna be an epic fail. And then I have to either be like, okay, well, now I know what when that, it is a fail, I know and know why, kind of.
31:09.09
Jess
Or it won't be a surprise anyways, and then I just go do it anyways. But um you have to just not be trying to think about it, I guess.
31:20.37
Shannon Jackson
yeah right it's the I always say when you are finding yourself feeling really anxious, um experiencing a lot of the symptoms or having that like buildup of panic, it's probably because you're doing a lot of entertaining of your thoughts.
31:32.88
Jess
Yeah.
31:33.32
Shannon Jackson
right and That's where we really run into so much trouble. It's like ah so many people, I swear, 80% of people that I work with, anticipatory anxiety is the problem.
31:42.09
Jess
Yes.
31:42.37
Shannon Jackson
which means which means your thinking is just heightened.
31:42.37
Jess
Oh, yes.
31:48.18
Shannon Jackson
That's not the problem.
31:48.91
Jess
Mm-hmm.
31:49.63
Shannon Jackson
It's how you're responding to your thinking. That's the problem. And that's what we're really focused on a lot in the program, is changing that. Because once you've changed that, the anticipatory anxiety, it's turned down, and then you find, okay, I go do it, and I'm actually okay.
32:01.41
Jess
hello
32:05.39
Shannon Jackson
i'm or you know Or I did experience anxiety, but i but I actually got through it. It wasn't so bad. and
32:10.80
Jess
Yeah, like if you can just, it it takes lots of practice and patience, which I don't really have any patience. This has taught me to have it for sure. But if you can take the moment to make the habit of slowing it down,
32:23.79
Jess
and giving yourself time to even listen to what you're telling yourself, then it can make like a complete world of difference. And realizing that and learning that, I think, was a huge, huge part for me in and not starting to recover, like ah beginning to do the recovery thing. um Because it's nuts the things you tell yourself. And you can't be doing that. You've got to talk to yourself like really well.
32:50.56
Jess
so Yeah, no, I found that to be a really big thing. Cause I would even, I would go to go to the grocery store, which is literally like a kilometer on my down the road on my actual street I live on.
33:02.81
Jess
And I remember having to have headphones in, I'm holding onto the cart with like a dear life. And then I'd say I had to go there again the next day big.
33:13.25
Jess
Okay. So I'm not going to think like that. I'm not going to let the anxiety happen. I'm not going to get that feeling. And then literally,
33:19.58
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
33:20.30
Jess
When you're not even in your car yet, you already feel that way. Like I was doing, I spent quite a long time trying to think if I have, if I had that feeling, then it was a fail.
33:30.03
Shannon Jackson
yeah Yeah. Yeah. Right? Telling yourself, I can't feel this way. I'm not going to feel this way. You're like actually manifesting that stuff into happening. And then when it does and you declare failure, it's like, wait, what?
33:41.14
Shannon Jackson
like feeling is never a failure. right so and And we always love to do that. like We analyzed it. It didn't go well or it did go well. And usually when we say it didn't go well, it's because we were feeling. But it's like, what? that's That is is part of this. It makes sense. You're going to feel. right We're not trying to turn off feelings. The gauge of like whether it was successful or not is, did you let yourself just try? I don't care how it looked. I don't care how you felt. That's not what we're looking at. right That's not what's important.
34:10.72
Jess
Exactly. Absolutely. But, um, yeah, I went on, I did go on medication. Well, I got prescribed medication and then did anything with it for like a month. Cause I was like on Reddit, looking up what happens when you take medication and all the things either you hear and you're going to get fat and you're going to lose your sex drive and dedada all these things. So I held onto it for quite a while.
34:37.65
Jess
And then finally, i I actually, my girlfriend, I kept not taking it. And then my girlfriend video chatted me and ah she was like, I'm not getting off the phone with you till you take it.
34:50.34
Jess
And I was like, me fine. And I took it as if something was going to happen after, right after I took it. But I was anxious to take the anxiety meds, like go figure.
34:55.61
Shannon Jackson
Right.
34:59.23
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
34:59.24
Jess
And, um, That, I found that was really hard for the first week or two. They say that it often gets worse before it gets better. And for me, I did find that to be accurate.
35:11.26
Jess
um I was on, um they started me on 25 milligrams of citrulline, so Zoloft.
35:18.27
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
35:19.07
Jess
And it was really, really bad for maybe like 10 days or something. And then, um, it actually, I started to feel better, but it was kind of confusing because after making it feel, you feel so crappy, like you are going to feel a bit better.
35:35.19
Jess
Um, but I did eventually find after a few weeks, but this is mixed in. If I had have just went right to medication, I don't think that it would have gone as well as I am doing now.
35:47.49
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
35:47.65
Jess
Um, But it did help, it helped with the physical parts, like the actual physical symptoms started to die down a little bit.
35:51.86
Shannon Jackson
ye
35:56.26
Jess
Um, and then I'm again, doing my Reddit research and that saying that there's lots of people there on like 250 milligrams and a hundred milligrams and all this.
36:06.80
Jess
And then I would have my friends be like, really? You're only on 25. And, um, I was like, I don't know. I guess I'm just, my doctor wanted to take it really slow and see how it goes kind of thing.
36:19.26
Jess
And oh, I also stopped drinking at this time. i they That doctor had told me you couldn't have even one drink on this medication. And so I i didn't drink for maybe like three or four months. And um that's when things, I really started to just kind of focus on how I was feeling and like, but I just spent so much time working on myself, I feel. And my boyfriend again was gone at this point, which in a way was good because I literally just like, just ah was obsessed with myself kind of thing.
36:53.51
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
36:53.51
Jess
And I did end up going up to 50 milligrams. I remember debating it for quite a while. And then I was like, no, I think if I was on the right dose, I wouldn't be thinking about it.
37:05.32
Jess
So I did go up to the 50 milligrams. And that was probably in the time I was on 50 milligrams. It was probably June of this year. um And then I've been on I've just stayed on that I've had my doctor be kind of I have in this in the one point of this I ended up getting a family doctor I do have one now. And he's actually wanted me to go on higher medication he was kind of weirded out that only 50 milligrams was helping me. um
37:39.97
Jess
and told me it might stop working or something. And maybe that will happen, but I don't feel the need to go on a higher medication or anything. I feel like I'm in a good spot. So I'm just sticking with that. And yeah, I just slowly, that that helped with the physical parts.
37:55.05
Jess
So that was nice. So I didn't have to actually think I was, I only like thought I was going to die. I didn't like feel like I was actually dying when I was driving and doing things.
38:01.41
Shannon Jackson
yeah yeah i Yeah, I always say it's like the medication for some people for quite a few people can help turn that dial down on like the thoughts and the symptoms.
38:03.09
Jess
It was only thoughts I had to work on.
38:14.88
Shannon Jackson
Some people find it's more with the symptoms. There's still some stickiness with the thoughts there. That's why and I'm so glad that you did start the program and then go on medication because I feel like you started to build some of the skills and the trust and then going on the medication after you had a little bit of practice with things was really helpful um because of course if you're yeah most people right are just going on medication because their doctors like here this is a solution just take this
38:27.61
Jess
Yeah.
38:31.14
Jess
Totally.
38:42.54
Shannon Jackson
um And they're not building any skills and like actually learning how to develop that healthy relationship with anxiety. So it's just like this, you're just banking everything on this medication.
38:48.72
Jess
Mm-hmm.
38:52.51
Jess
That's exactly it.
38:52.56
Shannon Jackson
But for you, yeah, like you recognized.
38:54.67
Jess
That would make sense that I was relying on a medication, right?
38:56.79
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
38:59.13
Jess
Like, what if it stops working?
38:59.67
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
39:00.44
Jess
I don't think about that at all. um Yeah, no, I wouldn't.
39:02.82
Shannon Jackson
Yeah, that's amazing.
39:06.17
Jess
Yeah, exactly. But at the same time, you can't, I don't want to throw, everyone's road is going to be completely different too, so.
39:06.88
Shannon Jackson
Yeah, I think
39:13.67
Shannon Jackson
Exactly, exactly. And some people don't go the medication route or have in the past and it wasn't helpful. And some people do go on it and find it to be really helpful. everyone's journey is different.
39:25.23
Shannon Jackson
I think a couple of really big disclaimers here, right, is what has been helpful for Jess with her journey with medication might not be helpful for you, right? We can't say, okay, Jess is, you know, it worked really well for her to go on the 25 of Zoloft and then the 50 and she feels really good here.
39:41.56
Shannon Jackson
That does not mean that's going to be helpful or work for you. So this is why I always encourage like, stay off of the Reddit thread, stay off of the internet, like, nobody's
39:49.15
Jess
Yes. Worst thing ever.
39:51.29
Shannon Jackson
Yeah, nobody's journey is going to to help you specifically. like What has unlocked something for somebody else might not be helpful at all for you.
39:55.22
Jess
Yes.
40:00.20
Shannon Jackson
The most helpful conversations with medication are going to be with the prescribing doctor and also listening to he yourself, like what Jess has done.
40:04.94
Jess
yes
40:08.60
Shannon Jackson
like She has listened to herself and really has felt and known, like, no, I'm good. I'm going to try a little bit more and and went up to the 50, but feels like, OK, no, this is good.
40:19.25
Shannon Jackson
I'm staying here. and when you can listen to yourself and give yourself that space. Oh, it's incredible.
40:26.07
Jess
Absolutely. Yeah, no, I am very, very happy. I'm very happy for sure. It just what allowed me to kind of do some more things. I started going to the gym ah shortly around maybe that was in like April or May. I started going to the gym, which I had always loved doing.
40:44.78
Jess
And I did get anxious there. I did have some times where I was like, oh, what if this, they're like, no, i want I want to work out. I love how I feel after I do it. I'm doing it. And I still go ah consistently now. um And then what were some other, I'm trying to think, it would just be little things, even so to then after making myself need to have a couple drinks to go into town and go to a restaurant.
41:12.65
Jess
I then would start I was like no I you don't need to do that Jess you can have some drinks at the restaurant as you would in normal situations anyways but I would just start to slowly do things it's so weird because you can't even pinpoint when it changes
41:20.31
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
41:31.44
Jess
I think this might skip a little bit but I think when things really started to change is when I think it was in August ah that I drove up to my cabin or cabin which is a five-hour drive away from me which is insane like I literally never drove I never drive over more than like 20 minutes up
41:50.66
Shannon Jackson
insane.
41:54.80
Jess
since dealing with anxiety. And then I drove for five hours and had a good and had a decent time by myself.
41:58.05
Shannon Jackson
By yourself, right?
42:00.72
Jess
ah Well, my Chloe, my cat was with me, but yes, by myself ish.
42:04.41
Shannon Jackson
I love how you take your cat on this road trip.
42:05.01
Jess
And, um, yeah, no, I had. Yeah. Oh, totally. She's pretty good. But yeah, I, uh, I could never even like imagine.
42:17.13
Jess
i um I wouldn't even drive for half an hour so my boyfriend could have a nap prior like um a couple months before this.
42:21.52
Shannon Jackson
yeah
42:24.11
Jess
I was like, no, absolutely not. I would just sit there and he would drive really tired, like half falling asleep. And then I did it. I did bring an ice pack. um i didn't use it i don't think no i don't think i used it but i didn't i didn't beat myself up that i brought it like hello i just drove five hours by myself um like into and and into a remote area too um like i'm not gonna feel bad that i brought an ice pack like i'm just so glad that i did it so glad and then i got there and my boyfriend was like oh my god you must be so excited right now and we were like it was just it was just so exciting and then the mo momentum starts to
43:04.28
Jess
build. But then I also was like, Ooh, now I have to drive home.
43:07.92
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
43:10.52
Shannon Jackson
Oh, I remember when we met, so you did go in August because we literally met August. And I remember you saying, what if I drive, she had in like a couple of hours and I get a couple of hours in and I'm like, oh, no.
43:16.07
Jess
Okay.
43:22.44
Shannon Jackson
And I'm just like, okay, well, we're not going there.
43:22.47
Jess
hey
43:24.70
Shannon Jackson
We're not.
43:25.82
Jess
Yeah.
43:26.28
Shannon Jackson
Okay, maybe that happens. Maybe it doesn't, but we're not going to try to figure that out right now.
43:31.15
Jess
Mm hmm.
43:31.57
Shannon Jackson
and like hearing you I remember you sent me an email and I was so these are the best to get like I love hearing from anyone in my community but when you sent me that email of like I did it I was just like oh shit like I honestly felt like you were going to because when we met you were like I'm just gonna pack the car and we're gonna wake up in the morning and I'm gonna go and you sort of weren't giving yourself that option you were like going and I think when you make that decision and you're not indecisive like not living in that indecisive am I gonna go am I gonna do it you were like I'm gonna do it I'm gonna go and I'm just gonna see you and I remember getting that email and I was like oh my gosh and then you had to drive home by yourself again right like the five hours and that was okay and
43:53.01
Jess
Yeah. Yes.
44:11.38
Jess
Mm hmm, mm hmm.
44:16.24
Jess
Yeah, yeah. Like I called people like as, but as you would, when you're driving for five hours, you get bored. And I like had my podcast. There was, um, yeah, no, I wouldn't give it like, probably a four out of 10 anxiety wise, maybe at times.
44:35.28
Shannon Jackson
That is so wild.
44:36.51
Jess
Yeah, yeah.
44:36.75
Shannon Jackson
That is so wild.
44:37.26
Jess
Instead of like a hell no, no way. absolutely not ever happening. And then I did it again. I've done it three times now. um Yeah.
44:48.96
Shannon Jackson
Oh, my God.
44:48.92
Jess
um
44:50.02
Shannon Jackson
And I remember like in the program, you were like, i'm not I don't know how I'm ever going to do that.
44:50.44
Jess
ah don't
44:53.34
Jess
no yeah yeah no exactly and i've done it several times i and but and by myself which does suck like anxiety take that out of it like it's nice to have somebody with you um and then now and then i remember saying to myself like oh i finally got my momentum going and i'm driving up and then it was the end of the season like i wouldn't drive up there in the winter by myself like any at any day my boyfriend wouldn't even let me if i wanted to um but uh i remember being like oh i can't wait for next season because
45:03.62
Shannon Jackson
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
45:24.42
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
45:24.74
Jess
I gotta to keep this momentum going and that is what it is. once i Once I did that drive the first time, I started to literally say to myself, well, while I drove for five hours, so I can go, i there's a hike I wanted to do that's like on my way home from work.
45:42.07
Jess
It's just like five kilometers, but it's really nice, like in the rainforest kind of thing. And I started doing that after on my way home from work, which is crazy. Like I never would walk somewhere by myself. Like, what if I had a panic attack? What if I, anything? And I started doing that walk by myself. And then I, and I would like, ooh, what if something happens? It was like, ah, I'll,
46:06.07
Jess
figure it out. But when you would say things like that, like, when you would say the proper ways, I remember being like, I couldn't, how do I say that?
46:07.29
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
46:15.36
Jess
Like, I get what you're saying.
46:15.76
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
46:16.59
Jess
But to say it and believe it is a whole other thing.
46:17.23
Shannon Jackson
ah Yeah.
46:20.49
Jess
And I started to actually believe it.
46:22.71
Shannon Jackson
yeah
46:22.72
Jess
And then the momentum just just takes you.
46:25.38
Shannon Jackson
It's like, I know people always say, Shannon, how do I believe? like How do I believe that like I can do this or I can do that?
46:28.92
Jess
Yeah,
46:30.66
Shannon Jackson
And I'm like, you you create it. but You create it when you take the steps and you create more of that trust.
46:33.67
Jess
yeah
46:36.56
Shannon Jackson
If people are curious, i know like we were talking, I think yesterday, and I mentioned how cold it is here. And you were like, how much is that in Celsius? And I'm like, damn it. So when Jess is saying five kilometers, that's like three miles.
46:47.01
Jess
so
46:50.11
Jess
Oh, okay, yeah.
46:50.32
Shannon Jackson
So if people are in the States, they're probably going to be like, ah how far is that? So doing all of this by yourself. I remember hearing you like in the program having such such a lack of trust in yourself. like I don't know how I'm ever going to be able to drive again right and not really think about it. Go places, do things, not think about it. like Be able to do the things that I want to do. like You're around so much beautiful nature, hiking. like And now you're doing this stuff again.
47:20.49
Shannon Jackson
And in yesterday, right, we talked and you were like, I'm going, I went to a couple of stores that I haven't been to in forever.
47:21.17
Jess
yeah i feel like
47:27.23
Shannon Jackson
And I'm like, what is happening?
47:29.30
Jess
yeah and before I would have thought about that for like that that wasn't planned last night but to go do something like that like oh no I can't do that and then I would just sit at home before and be like and maybe order a couple things online so I didn't have to go into a store um but no you just get this momentum going and then and then I'm starting to
47:30.30
Shannon Jackson
It's so cool.
47:44.59
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
47:52.76
Jess
well for a while now I'm starting to feel like myself again and feel like the old Jess that like I remember talking to my mom and she's like in her 70s she's not really up with like the mental health stuff and she's not judging but she was like i remember when you used to she's like well what do you mean what's wrong i'm you used to be like this you used to i'm like you'd need to stop saying that i that is probably the worst thing you could say to somebody i i'm like i am still me i'm just dealing with something right now let me figure it out but i'm trying and
48:06.97
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
48:26.16
Shannon Jackson
Yeah. Yeah. That is so hard.
48:28.51
Jess
I feel like I have now. I'm starting to. I still have um things like I wouldn't say I'm 100% recovered but that's totally okay because I am happy to be here. I have a good day every day. I'm doing more. um Obviously there's going to be crappy days with anything but there's way way way more.
48:51.03
Jess
more good days. Another thing that I didn't mention somewhere in the mix of all that is I did go to another another therapist where I did do the EMDR therapy and I do I have a bit mixed feelings on that but I do feel like it kind of helped.
49:03.63
Shannon Jackson
Mm hmm.
49:09.36
Jess
We went through very detailed of that panic attack in the mall and the panic attack at the drugstore and um I do feel like it helped me. I remember getting off of a session one time and then and my cat had ran out of wet food and I was like, ah, I'll get it tomorrow. I'm not going to go into town. I was like, no, ah it's only 10 minutes down the road. Why wouldn't I go into this other town that I literally never go to? And I just like got up and went. And I started i started to realize
49:46.42
Jess
uh like it did make sense i was scared and then i taught myself that talking to somebody was gonna make me feel better and then i taught myself that going home to where i'm safe is gonna make me feel better so now that i've taught my body that i need to work on fixing that but i did find that it plateaued i uh we kept going on it with uh more of the driving and she was trying to get me to just like literally go jump on the highway basically after doing the emdr and i was not able to do that i did it i did it once and then i was like i'm not doing that again and then i couldn't do it but it's too forced i can't do it needs to be more natural yeah right
50:19.70
Shannon Jackson
Yeah.
50:28.95
Shannon Jackson
Yeah. And that's a big part of what I teach too. Because I think if that's how healing happened, there'd be so many people that would not be struggling at all. Like, if you told me the key, right, is to just go drive, go hike, go do all the things, I wouldn't have struggled for 15 years.
50:45.60
Shannon Jackson
Like, that's insane, right? it's an in it And it can't be forced.
50:47.24
Jess
Yeah, not how it works.
50:48.97
Shannon Jackson
You can't force your way into safety. Like that, when you try to do that, it creates even more distress in yourself and in your body. So I'm so glad that you mentioned that. And yeah, I think em drr EMDR sorry can be really helpful. And I have a whole, I have actually a couple episodes on that. So if you're curious, you can go listen to those. um But oh my gosh, Jess, I am just so incredibly proud of you for all the steps you've taken for where you are, what you're continuing to do, because you recognize, right, like, I have to keep doing this work, right? It doesn't just end now. um And it's just been so amazing to see you grow and continue the momentum into
51:27.01
Shannon Jackson
to live, like to do the things that you want to do while taking anxiety with you.
51:31.90
Jess
Yeah, no, thank you so much. i to this the like pillars or the main points that you speak of in the different courses. it They're so simple on one hand, but at the same time, they're not.
51:47.09
Jess
It's something that you do have to work on. um But I'm so glad that I don't even know how I found Panic to Peace or Healthy Push. I have no idea how I even even found it, but ah I'm so, so grateful that I did.
51:58.34
Jess
That's for sure.
51:59.22
Shannon Jackson
Oh, me too, Jess. It's so crazy how the universe just sort of connects us sometimes with these things that we really need.
52:01.28
Jess
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
52:04.87
Shannon Jackson
And it's just been really cool to see you on this journey. And I know there are people out there, right, that have had a similar journey, like it just hit me very randomly.
52:15.89
Shannon Jackson
And I never really had anxiety before this, like I didn't even really know what panic was. And so being able to share your story and be vulnerable is going to be so helpful. And I just appreciate you so much.
52:27.97
Jess
Yeah, of course.
52:29.86
Shannon Jackson
Thank you again.
